Samantha Atkins wrote:
On Dec 9, 2007, at 3:05 PM, Ed Porter wrote:
John,
...
Atheism requires a leap of faith, and it requires such a leap from
people who, in general, ridicule them.
A leap of faith is precisely what it DOES NOT require. It does
require a leap of faith to proclaim that there is a God. That is
part of their point.
Umnnh... no. Agnosticism does not require a leap of faith. Both theism
and atheism do.
I personally consider knowing whether or not there is a god and, if
so, what he, she, or it is like way above my mental pay grade, or
that of any AGI likely to be made within the next several centuries.
Actually, this depends on precisely what your definition of god is.
There have been several different definitions used through history and
in different cultures. If you are going to believe or disbelieve, then
it is incumbent upon *you* to know what it is you are affirming or
denying. (I don't insist that you share the definition, merely that you
be aware that a) you do have a definition, and b) others may well have
different ones.)
...
...
No evidence means that you have no rational basis for entertaining
such a possibility whatsoever. So what are you doing exactly? Why
would such a powerful Being care to rearrange parts of the universe
due to your pleadings anyway?
No evidence also means lack of grounds for disbelief.
...
- s
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Until I had a personal experience of something that matched some of the
traditional parameters for "an encounter with god", I was an agnostic,
leaning towards atheism. Now... well, the phenomena described exist,
but they appear to be psychological reactions to particular
circumstances. They produce certain emotional reactions, which match
the traditional descriptions (ecstacy, a certainty of rightness, etc.).
OTOH, they don't appear to produce testable physical effects that can be
stated with certainty to not be due to either belief or other
psychological manipulations.
And there have been other times. Once after examining a person who
claimed to be a spoon-bender (telekinetic) I found a case hardened
rat-tail file that was bent. The person who claimed to be doing the
bending didn't know anything about this, and case hardened metal is
supposed to break rather than bend. Well, it *was* only the tail of the
file, and I didn't try to straighten it (I'm not that stupid, it was a
good file, and I was broke). But ever since then I've 1) been convinced
that psychic powers *might* exist, but are, at least until some future
breakthrough, useless, and 2) I don't have certainty that I understand
the world.
N.B.: I was the one that noticed the file. The spoon-bender soon gave
up on her claims (within a week or two...I couldn't be more specific).
I accidentally hit the spoon-bender with a door while she was trying to
show her prowess (on an easily bent spoon) to someone else.
OTOH, I don't know that the file had a straight handle to start with.
But I've never seen one for sale that way. It was my file, and I don't
remember it being bent earlier. Perhaps the tail of a case hardened
file isn't itself case hardened and someone else bent it earlier? (But
it was the same color as the rest of the file.)
I frequently find agnosticism the most reasonable choice.
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