Actually, no, I'm not going to do that. I can't google quick enough, and
honestly, I don't
really care.
If I wanted to, I could easily make the leap that one of the biggest support
groups for
Republicans are evangelical christians, who basically scare the crap out of me.
They are patently anti-gay.
So, while it might be true that a republican figurehead such as a president may
not have
done anything to hurt the gay population, behind the scenes there is plenty of
hurt going
on by republican supporters.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jack how do you post this without responding at all to the fact that
> only a Democrat President has passed laws hurting gays?
>
> You go straight to name calling.
>
> Nothing to say about the fact that only a Democrat President had hurt
> gays and Republicans haven't?
>
> It's not a fair statement to say 'Democrats hurt gays" when only a
> Democrat President as hurt them not once but twice?
>
> Address the issue. I dare you.
>
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Pitzer" <hinge98@> wrote:
> >
> > Democrats hurt gays.
> > Probably the most ignorant comment I've ever read here.
> > I can't wait for this election to be over, because the hardcore
> republicans appear to be
> > freaking out in desperation. Fox news was falling all over itself
> this morning to find new
> > ways to put Obama down while grasping at straws.
> > What's going to happen to all of the over-zealous republicans next
> week when Obama
> > wins? Are you all going to go hide under your beds in fear?
> > And what happens when Obama actually does good for our country? Are
> you going to find
> > a way to trash him then?
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
> <justifiedright@> wrote:
> > >
> > > You say below that Biden wants to "preserve the definition of marriage
> > > in the constitution."
> > >
> > > Is that another Biden gaffe? Where does the constitution have a
> > > definition of marriage?
> > >
> > > Either he didn't say it and your source is wrong, or he's made yet
> > > another of many silly gaffes.
> > >
> > > Sorry to burst your bubble Jennifer but there have only been 1
> > > executive order and 1 law signed by an American President.
> > >
> > > Both were against gays. Both were signed by Democrat Bill Clinton.
> > >
> > > No Republican President has signed a law or order against gays.
> > >
> > > George Bush had a Republican House and Senate for 6 years and didn't
> > > do it.
> > >
> > > Democrat Bill Clinton did.
> > >
> > > Open your eyes - Democrats hurt gays.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <jennifernjca@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "justifiedright"
> > > > <justifiedright@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "> Your quote accused conservative of hate and fear mongering. The
> > > > > posts were disprove your point - it's the libs that are unhinged."
> > > >
> > > > No Sir, you said Liberals alway change the subject in a response
> to a
> > > > post I wrote about separating marriage from the state. I replied
> > > > that I wasn't changing a subject, but contributing my own
> thought on
> > > > the topic which had already begun.
> > > >
> > > > I simply replied to you with a question about Conservatives
> trying to
> > > > scare people and stir up anger and hatred by fear mongering. No
> one
> > > > is shouting to kill McCain or Palin at Obama rallies.
> > > >
> > > > You came back with some angry people threatening a woman who exists
> > > > to be the voice of soccer moms everyhwere. I gave you some very
> > > > clear examples and quotes from Republicans on the original topic -
> > > > civil rights for gay couples.
> > > >
> > > > I did name the wrong law as the source of the debate DOMA. These
> > > > debates were over the the 2006 Federal Marriage Amendment not the
> > > > Defense of Marriage Act. It is the words stated that are scary.
> The
> > > > amendment didn't pass.
> > > >
> > > > Other quotes on the same topic:
> > > > Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said he will
> vote
> > > > against the measure on the floor but allowed it to get there in
> part
> > > > to give the GOP the debate party leaders believe will pay off on
> > > > Election Day.
> > > >
> > > > Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid of Nevada "The reason for this
> > > > debate is to divide our society, to pit one against another.
> This is
> > > > another one of the presidents efforts to frighten, to distort, to
> > > > distract and to confuse America. It is this administration's way of
> > > > avoiding the tough, real problems that American citizens are
> > > > confronted with each and every day."
> > > >
> > > > "It's politics. It's pandering and it's placating a core
> > > > constituency, the evangelicals" San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom
> > > >
> > > > You wrote "If you are for equalizing gay rights, you have no dog in
> > > > this Presidential hunt. Both candidates said at debate they agree
> > > > with one another - neither will equalize the marriage rights
> (rather
> > > > lack thereof) for gays."
> > > >
> > > > The current presidential election? I didn't bring that up at all.
> > > > Still, I knew some have spoken up so here's their own words on the
> > > > topic.
> > > >
> > > > From the VP Debate
> > > >
> > > > Q: Would you support expanding that beyond Alaska to the rest of
> the
> > > > nation?
> > > >
> > > > PALIN: Well, not if it goes closer and closer towards redefining
> the
> > > > traditional definition of marriage between one man and one
> woman. And
> > > > unfortunately that's sometimes where those steps lead. I don't
> > > > support defining marriage as anything but between one man and one
> > > > woman, and I think through nuances we can go round and round about
> > > > what that actually means. I'm being as straight up with
> Americans as
> > > > I can in my non- support for anything but a traditional
> definition of
> > > > marriage.
> > > >
> > > > Q: Let's try to avoid nuance. Do you support gay marriage?
> > > >
> > > > BIDEN: No. We do not support that. That is a decision to be able to
> > > > be left to faiths.
> > > >
> > > > PALIN: My answer is the same as his and it is that I do not.
> > > >
> > > > Marriages are an institution of faith and civil unions are an
> > > > institution of state. Sounds like Joe agrees.
> > > >
> > > > That famous executive experience of Palin's was often used to fight
> > > > gay civil unions. Sarah Palin fought Alaska's civil union laws.
> > > > Palin said she supported Alaska's decision to amend its
> Constitution
> > > > to ban same-sex marriage. But she used her first veto as
> governor to
> > > > block a bill that would have prohibited the state from granting
> > > > health benefits to same-sex partners of public employees. Ms. Palin
> > > > said she vetoed the bill because it was unconstitutional, but
> raised
> > > > the possibility of amending the state Constitution so the ban could
> > > > pass muster.
> > > >
> > > > Governor Sarah Palin today announced that, per the recent ruling of
> > > > the Supreme Court of Alaska, the State of Alaska's regulations
> are in
> > > > effect to begin providing state benefits to same sex partners
> > > > beginning January 1, 2007. "The Supreme Court has ordered
> adoption of
> > > > the regulations by the State of Alaska to begin providing benefits
> > > > January 1," said Governor Palin. "We have no more judicial options.
> > > > We may disagree with the rationale behind the ruling, but our
> > > > responsibility is to proceed forward with the law and follow the
> > > > Constitution."
> > > >
> > > > In addition to adoption of the regulations, Governor Palin signed
> > > > HB4002 today, which calls for a statewide advisory vote,
> proposed by
> > > > the Legislature during its November special session. "I disagree
> with
> > > > the recent court decision because I feel as though Alaskans
> spoke on
> > > > this issue with its overwhelming support for a Constitutional
> > > > Amendment in 1998 which defined marriage as between a man and
> woman.
> > > > But the Supreme Court has spoken and the state will abide.
> > > >
> > > > Source: Alaska Governor's Office: Press release 06-012, "Same Sex"
> > > > Dec 20, 2006
> > > >
> > > > Palin said she's not out to judge anyone and has good friends
> who are
> > > > gay, but that she supported the 1998 constitutional amendment.
> > > > Elected officials can't defy the court when it comes to how rights
> > > > are applied, she said, but she would support a ballot question that
> > > > would deny benefits to homosexual couples. "I believe that honoring
> > > > the family structure is that important," Palin said. She said she
> > > > doesn't know if people choose to be gay.
> > > >
> > > > Source: Anchorage Daily News, "Little play," by K. Hopkins Aug 6,
> > > > 2006
> > > >
> > > > Q: Do you support the Alaska Supreme Court's ruling that spousal
> > > > benefits for state employees should be given to same-sex couples?
> > > > A: No, I believe spousal benefits are reserved for married citizens
> > > > as defined in our constitution.
> > > >
> > > > Source: Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul
> > > > 31, 2006
> > > > Q: In relationship to families, what are your top three
> priorities if
> > > > elected governor?
> > > > A: 1. Creating an atmosphere where parents feel welcome to
> choose the
> > > > venues of education for their children.
> > > > 2. Preserving the definition of "marriage" as defined in our
> > > > constitution.
> > > > 3. Cracking down on the things that harm family life: gangs, drug
> > > > use, and infringement of our liberties including attacks on our 2nd
> > > > Amendment rights.
> > > >
> > > > Source: Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul
> > > > 31, 2006
> > > >
> > > > Before you conclude that I am misinterpreting Biden's civil union
> > > > stand here's his opinion.
> > > >
> > > > Q: In relationship to families, what are your top three
> priorities if
> > > > elected governor?
> > > > A: 1. Creating an atmosphere where parents feel welcome to
> choose the
> > > > venues of education for their children.
> > > > 2. Preserving the definition of "marriage" as defined in our
> > > > constitution.
> > > > 3. Cracking down on the things that harm family life: gangs, drug
> > > > use, and infringement of our liberties including attacks on our 2nd
> > > > Amendment rights.
> > > >
> > > > Source: Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul
> > > > 31, 2006
> > > >
> > > > Barack Obama
> > > > Q: You had one supporter on a Bible tour in South Carolina who said
> > > > that homosexuality was a curse and that he had been cured by
> prayer.
> > > > Do you believe homosexuality's a curse?
> > > > A: No.
> > > >
> > > > Q: Do you believe that it is something that you are born gay or
> that
> > > > you can change your behavior?
> > > >
> > > > A: I do not believe being gay or lesbian is a choice. And so I
> > > > disagree with [that supporter]. But part of what I hope to offer as
> > > > president is the ability to reach to people that I don't agree
> with,
> > > > and the evangelical community is one where the Democratic Party, I
> > > > think, we have generally seen as hostile. We haven't been reaching
> > > > out to them, and I think that if we're going to makes significant
> > > > progress on critical issues that we face, we've got to be able
> to get
> > > > beyond our comfort zones and just talk to people we don't like.
> I've
> > > > tried to do is to reach out to the evangelical community and tell
> > > > them very clearly where I disagree.
> > > >
> > > > Source: Meet the Press: 2007 "Meet the Candidates" series Nov 11,
> > > > 2007
> > > > Q: You had one supporter on a Bible tour in South Carolina who said
> > > > that homosexuality was a curse and that he had been cured by
> prayer.
> > > > Do you believe homosexuality's a curse?
> > > > A: No.
> > > >
> > > > Q: Do you believe that it is something that you are born gay or
> that
> > > > you can change your behavior?
> > > >
> > > > A: I do not believe being gay or lesbian is a choice. And so I
> > > > disagree with [that supporter]. But part of what I hope to offer as
> > > > president is the ability to reach to people that I don't agree
> with,
> > > > and the evangelical community is one where the Democratic Party, I
> > > > think, we have generally seen as hostile. We haven't been reaching
> > > > out to them, and I think that if we're going to makes significant
> > > > progress on critical issues that we face, we've got to be able
> to get
> > > > beyond our comfort zones and just talk to people we don't like.
> I've
> > > > tried to do is to reach out to the evangelical community and tell
> > > > them very clearly where I disagree.
> > > >
> > > > Source: Meet the Press: 2007 "Meet the Candidates" series Nov 11,
> > > > 2007
> > > > The notion of gay marriage has been used to divide people in black
> > > > churches. I pointed out that if there's any pastor here who can
> point
> > > > out a marriage that has been broken up as a consequence of
> seeing two
> > > > men or two women holding hands, then you should tell me, because I
> > > > haven't seen any evidence of it. And if you think that issue is
> more
> > > > important to the black family than the fact that black men don't
> have
> > > > any jobs and are struggling in the inner cities, then I profoundly
> > > > disagree with you.
> > > > Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007
> > > >
> > > > The notion of gay marriage has been used to divide people in black
> > > > churches. I pointed out that if there's any pastor here who can
> point
> > > > out a marriage that has been broken up as a consequence of
> seeing two
> > > > men or two women holding hands, then you should tell me, because I
> > > > haven't seen any evidence of it. And if you think that issue is
> more
> > > > important to the black family than the fact that black men don't
> have
> > > > any jobs and are struggling in the inner cities, then I profoundly
> > > > disagree with you.
> > > > Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007
> > > >
> > > > Q: You have said in previous debates that it is up to individual
> > > > religious denominations to decide whether or not to recognize same-
> > > > sex marriage. What place does the church have in government-
> > > > sanctioned civil marriages?
> > > > A: It is my strong belief that the government has to treat all
> > > > citizens equally. I don't think that the church should be making
> > > > these determinations when it comes to legal rights conferred by the
> > > > state. I do think that individual denominations have the right to
> > > > make their own decisions as to whether they recognize same sex
> > > > couples. My denomination, United Church of Christ, does. Other
> > > > denominations may make a decision, and obviously, part of keeping a
> > > > separation of churches and state is also to make sure that churches
> > > > have the right to exercise their freedom of religion.
> > > >
> > > > Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007
> > > >
> > > > Obama may not support marriage for gays. He does support equal
> > > > rights under civil unions. McCain on the other hand supports
> > > > legislation that takes away the right constitutionally
> > > >
> > > > McCain announced his support last week for the California ballot
> > > > measure, known as Prop. 8. "I support the efforts of the people of
> > > > California to recognize marriage as a unique institution between a
> > > > man and a woman, just as we did in my home state of Arizona," he
> said.
> > > > Source: By Michael Finnegan and Cathleen Decker, Los Angeles Times
> > > > Jul 2, 2008
> > > >
> > > > Obama has said a lot more. He's appeared in debates on LOGO. I
> > > > don't want to be unfair to McCain here. He hasn't overtly opposed
> > > > rights to gays. I will leave their words to speak for them.
> > > >
> > > > However, I never asked about the current presidential election. I
> > > > only asked about Conservatives.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone is interested in how the candidates stand on different
> > > > areas of civil rights you can visit www.onthe issues.org
> > > >
> > > > I don't want rights that other people cannot have. It feels
> > > > unbalanced. I think of Laurel Hester who fought to her dying
> breath
> > > > to have her hard earned pension awarded to her partner.
> > > >
> > > > There is sometimes no excuse for the inexcusable.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, I admire some aspects of the original almost altruistic
> > > > conservative movement. Those old small government guys weren't
> > > > trying to discriminate against any one group. The Republicans of
> > > > yore were the party of Lincoln. If I lived, 150 years ago I
> would be
> > > > a Republican. I couldn't vote, but I'd be a Republican. The
> > > > original party founders must be looking down with horror at the
> > > > current one. I don't doubt that quite a few living ones are too.
> > > > I've just read an interview with one - Christopher Buckley, the son
> > > > of William F. Buckley, Jr. I hope you're more Buckley than Bush.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Jennifer
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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