Hey Di, Thanks for taking compat seriously.
We chatted about this at API OWNERS this morning, and there'd broad support for the deprecation. There's also concern about the relatively short deprecation window, but maybe there are some ways we can build confidence? Some ideas that were contributed by Mike, Yoav, and Chris: - Perhaps we can look to see which keywords in this proposal are unsupported in other engines? E.g., if it's not compatible to use it across Gecko, WebKit, and Blink today, perhaps it's easier to remove. - A spot check of the big users of these values to understand if there are patterns. Perhaps there's a single library, or embedded script, that represents the bulk of use, which might lead us to some quick wins for driving down use (e.g., targeted outreach). - DevRel might be able to help spread the word about deprecation. In general, I think there's support for marking this as deprecated quickly, but it might be better if we agree to revisit the removal date based on evidence in the future. WDYT? Best, Alex On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:03:15 PM UTC-7 Di Zhang wrote: > Thanks for the feedback. The counter does feel high, I will follow the > Deprecation steps [1] and extend the milestones (likely DevTrial 117 and > Shipping 3 milestones later at 120). > > [1] > https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/core/frame/deprecation/README.md > > On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 11:29:06 PM UTC-7 Yoav Weiss wrote: > >> Thanks!! So IIUC, any usage will result in rendering changes? If that's >> indeed the case, I think it makes sense to try and drive usage down before >> changing behavior.. >> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 12:08 AM TAMURA, Kent <tk...@chromium.org> wrote: >> >>> Valid appearance keywords have some side-effects even though they have >>> no special painting. >>> * Skip border painting >>> * 'display' property value is changed to 'inline-block' or 'block'. So >>> some properties such as 'width' 'height' are not ignored. >>> >>> <p> >>> <span style="border:2px solid red; height:3em; background:yellow; >>> appearance:media-slider;">Valid</span> >>> <span style="border:2px solid red; height:3em; background:yellow; >>> appearance:foobar;">Invalid</span> >>> </p> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 5:00 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> tkent@ - can you expand on the compat risk? It's not immediately >>>> obvious to me what these apps were doing that resulted in a rendering >>>> difference. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 03:45 TAMURA, Kent <tk...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Removing appearance keywords which have no painting code might have >>>>> compatibility issues. We removed the keyword "caret" in the past, and it >>>>> caused issues like crbug.com/944023. >>>>> >>>>> The counter for this is >>>>> https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/4416. >>>>> The value is 0.005 - 0.02. >>>>> >>>>> I recommend having a deprecation period before removal. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 3:54 AM Di Zhang <dizha...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Contact emailsdizha...@chromium.org >>>>>> >>>>>> ExplainerNone >>>>>> >>>>>> Specificationhttps://drafts.csswg.org/css-ui-4/#appearance-switching >>>>>> >>>>>> Summary >>>>>> >>>>>> Since only standard appearance keywords should be supported, we are >>>>>> removing the appearance (and -webkit-appearance) keywords that shouldn't >>>>>> be >>>>>> supported anymore: * inner-spin-button * media-slider * >>>>>> media-sliderthumb * >>>>>> media-volume-slider * media-volume-sliderthumb * push-button * >>>>>> searchfield-cancel-button * slider-horizontal * sliderthumb-horizontal * >>>>>> sliderthumb-vertical * square-button Note that value "slider-vertical" >>>>>> will >>>>>> not be removed as part of this patch it is used for allowing <input >>>>>> type=range> vertical. It will be removed once feature >>>>>> FormControlsVerticalWritingModeSupport is enabled in stable. Previously, >>>>>> if >>>>>> using any of the above keywords, a console warning will be shown, but >>>>>> the >>>>>> keyword will be recognized as a valid value. With the feature enabled, >>>>>> there will be no console warning. The appearance property will be >>>>>> ignored >>>>>> and set to the empty string. The use count (under >>>>>> WebFeature::kCSSValueAppearanceNonStandard) is at 0.005985% as of July >>>>>> 2023 >>>>>> [3]. [1] https://drafts.csswg.org/css-ui-4/#appearance-switching [2] >>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8506#issuecomment-1515062326 >>>>>> [3] >>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTP-wXiSV9_dSbbs4OEH-XqP0hakmoTwmEBkEJ-EAI3vDmlXxWMdHvCYl01QqUHm7q6iw8ubK0d3xk1/pub >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Blink componentBlink>CSS >>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG reviewNone >>>>>> >>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable >>>>>> >>>>>> Risks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>> >>>>>> This feature only affects the reflection in computed style. >>>>>> Currently, while it is possible to set an appearance value with one of >>>>>> these non-standard values, it will not affect the appearance of that >>>>>> element. Now, if appearance is set to one of these non-standard values, >>>>>> the >>>>>> returned computed appearance value will be auto. It is unlikely websites >>>>>> depend on this information: this deprecation should be web compatible. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Gecko*: Shipped/Shipping >>>>>> >>>>>> *WebKit*: No signal >>>>>> >>>>>> *Web developers*: No signals >>>>>> >>>>>> *Other signals*: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ergonomics >>>>>> >>>>>> There are no other platform APIS this will be used in tandem with and >>>>>> this will not make it hard for chrome to maintain good performance. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Activation >>>>>> >>>>>> There should be no challenge for developers to take advantage of this >>>>>> feature immediately. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Security >>>>>> >>>>>> N/A >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> WebView application risks >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>>>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications? >>>>>> >>>>>> None >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>> >>>>>> The non-standard appearance values we are removing are already not >>>>>> listed in the autocomplete in DevTools. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>>>> Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)?Yes >>>>>> >>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>> ?Yes >>>>>> >>>>>> Flag name on chrome://flagsRemoveNonStandardAppearanceValue >>>>>> >>>>>> Finch feature name >>>>>> >>>>>> Non-finch justificationNone >>>>>> >>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False >>>>>> >>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=924486 >>>>>> >>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>> Shipping on desktop 117 >>>>>> DevTrial on desktop 115 >>>>>> Shipping on Android 117 >>>>>> DevTrial on Android 115 >>>>>> Shipping on WebView 117 >>>>>> >>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>> >>>>>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web compat >>>>>> or interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to known github >>>>>> issues in the project for the feature specification) whose resolution >>>>>> may >>>>>> introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to naming or structure >>>>>> of >>>>>> the API in a non-backward-compatible way). >>>>>> None >>>>>> >>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5066630972833792 >>>>>> >>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions >>>>>> >>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BSS7eAE3At9QiJ-XymVFxUc7Z2%2B06xGTBOk%2B%3D7sGGNHvt5HSg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BSS7eAE3At9QiJ-XymVFxUc7Z2%2B06xGTBOk%2B%3D7sGGNHvt5HSg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> TAMURA Kent >>>>> Software Engineer, Google >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAGH7WqGmooLg362nFsWDC7JaYt3RaztUfccdtT5%2BA4_QFNJWJA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAGH7WqGmooLg362nFsWDC7JaYt3RaztUfccdtT5%2BA4_QFNJWJA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> TAMURA Kent >>> Software Engineer, Google >>> >>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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