Hi Alex, It's great to have support on this deprecation. Since we feel a deprecation period of 117 to 120 is too short, I just removed the target milestone. It can be updated once we have better metric pulses.
For suggestion 1, the wpt test appearance-cssom-001.html <http://wpt.live/css/css-ui/appearance-cssom-001.html?include=Invalid>actually list all of them. For Chrome, we are failing the 11 listed on this feature as well as 1 slider-vertical (for both appearance and -webkit-appearance). For Firefox, everything is passing: it only supports standard appearance values. For Safari, it is failing for the newly added 3 push-button, slider-horizontal, square-button [1], 1 internal apple-pay-button, and the same 1 slider-vertical. WebFeature::kCSSValueAppearanceNonStandard is currently tracking for all non-standard values, including slider-vertical. I could make them into 2 different WebFeatures as I suspect slider-vertical is high usage value (as it affects how <input type=range> gets rendered). Splitting it might decrease the usage percentage. Suggestions 2 and 3 are great, I don't know how to best start on them. [1] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8506#issuecomment-1515062326 was resolved April 2023 Thanks, Di On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 3:48:55 PM UTC-7 Alex Russell wrote: > Hey Di, > > Thanks for taking compat seriously. > > We chatted about this at API OWNERS this morning, and there'd broad > support for the deprecation. There's also concern about the relatively > short deprecation window, but maybe there are some ways we can build > confidence? Some ideas that were contributed by Mike, Yoav, and Chris: > > > - Perhaps we can look to see which keywords in this proposal are > unsupported in other engines? E.g., if it's not compatible to use it > across > Gecko, WebKit, and Blink today, perhaps it's easier to remove. > - A spot check of the big users of these values to understand if there > are patterns. Perhaps there's a single library, or embedded script, that > represents the bulk of use, which might lead us to some quick wins for > driving down use (e.g., targeted outreach). > - DevRel might be able to help spread the word about deprecation. > > In general, I think there's support for marking this as deprecated > quickly, but it might be better if we agree to revisit the removal date > based on evidence in the future. WDYT? > > Best, > > Alex > > > > On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:03:15 PM UTC-7 Di Zhang wrote: > >> Thanks for the feedback. The counter does feel high, I will follow the >> Deprecation steps [1] and extend the milestones (likely DevTrial 117 and >> Shipping 3 milestones later at 120). >> >> [1] >> https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/core/frame/deprecation/README.md >> >> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 11:29:06 PM UTC-7 Yoav Weiss wrote: >> >>> Thanks!! So IIUC, any usage will result in rendering changes? If that's >>> indeed the case, I think it makes sense to try and drive usage down before >>> changing behavior.. >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 12:08 AM TAMURA, Kent <tk...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Valid appearance keywords have some side-effects even though they have >>>> no special painting. >>>> * Skip border painting >>>> * 'display' property value is changed to 'inline-block' or 'block'. >>>> So some properties such as 'width' 'height' are not ignored. >>>> >>>> <p> >>>> <span style="border:2px solid red; height:3em; background:yellow; >>>> appearance:media-slider;">Valid</span> >>>> <span style="border:2px solid red; height:3em; background:yellow; >>>> appearance:foobar;">Invalid</span> >>>> </p> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 5:00 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> tkent@ - can you expand on the compat risk? It's not immediately >>>>> obvious to me what these apps were doing that resulted in a rendering >>>>> difference. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 03:45 TAMURA, Kent <tk...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Removing appearance keywords which have no painting code might have >>>>>> compatibility issues. We removed the keyword "caret" in the past, and it >>>>>> caused issues like crbug.com/944023. >>>>>> >>>>>> The counter for this is >>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/4416. >>>>>> The value is 0.005 - 0.02. >>>>>> >>>>>> I recommend having a deprecation period before removal. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 3:54 AM Di Zhang <dizha...@chromium.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Contact emailsdizha...@chromium.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ExplainerNone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Specificationhttps://drafts.csswg.org/css-ui-4/#appearance-switching >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since only standard appearance keywords should be supported, we are >>>>>>> removing the appearance (and -webkit-appearance) keywords that >>>>>>> shouldn't be >>>>>>> supported anymore: * inner-spin-button * media-slider * >>>>>>> media-sliderthumb * >>>>>>> media-volume-slider * media-volume-sliderthumb * push-button * >>>>>>> searchfield-cancel-button * slider-horizontal * sliderthumb-horizontal >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> sliderthumb-vertical * square-button Note that value "slider-vertical" >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> not be removed as part of this patch it is used for allowing <input >>>>>>> type=range> vertical. It will be removed once feature >>>>>>> FormControlsVerticalWritingModeSupport is enabled in stable. >>>>>>> Previously, if >>>>>>> using any of the above keywords, a console warning will be shown, but >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> keyword will be recognized as a valid value. With the feature enabled, >>>>>>> there will be no console warning. The appearance property will be >>>>>>> ignored >>>>>>> and set to the empty string. The use count (under >>>>>>> WebFeature::kCSSValueAppearanceNonStandard) is at 0.005985% as of July >>>>>>> 2023 >>>>>>> [3]. [1] https://drafts.csswg.org/css-ui-4/#appearance-switching >>>>>>> [2] >>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8506#issuecomment-1515062326 >>>>>>> [3] >>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTP-wXiSV9_dSbbs4OEH-XqP0hakmoTwmEBkEJ-EAI3vDmlXxWMdHvCYl01QqUHm7q6iw8ubK0d3xk1/pub >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Blink componentBlink>CSS >>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> TAG reviewNone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This feature only affects the reflection in computed style. >>>>>>> Currently, while it is possible to set an appearance value with one of >>>>>>> these non-standard values, it will not affect the appearance of that >>>>>>> element. Now, if appearance is set to one of these non-standard values, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> returned computed appearance value will be auto. It is unlikely >>>>>>> websites >>>>>>> depend on this information: this deprecation should be web compatible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Gecko*: Shipped/Shipping >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *WebKit*: No signal >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Web developers*: No signals >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Other signals*: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ergonomics >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are no other platform APIS this will be used in tandem with >>>>>>> and this will not make it hard for chrome to maintain good performance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Activation >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There should be no challenge for developers to take advantage of >>>>>>> this feature immediately. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Security >>>>>>> >>>>>>> N/A >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WebView application risks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such >>>>>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based >>>>>>> applications? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> None >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The non-standard appearance values we are removing are already not >>>>>>> listed in the autocomplete in DevTools. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, >>>>>>> Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)?Yes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>> ?Yes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Flag name on chrome://flagsRemoveNonStandardAppearanceValue >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Finch feature name >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Non-finch justificationNone >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=924486 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>>> Shipping on desktop 117 >>>>>>> DevTrial on desktop 115 >>>>>>> Shipping on Android 117 >>>>>>> DevTrial on Android 115 >>>>>>> Shipping on WebView 117 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web compat >>>>>>> or interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to known github >>>>>>> issues in the project for the feature specification) whose resolution >>>>>>> may >>>>>>> introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to naming or >>>>>>> structure of >>>>>>> the API in a non-backward-compatible way). >>>>>>> None >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5066630972833792 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BSS7eAE3At9QiJ-XymVFxUc7Z2%2B06xGTBOk%2B%3D7sGGNHvt5HSg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BSS7eAE3At9QiJ-XymVFxUc7Z2%2B06xGTBOk%2B%3D7sGGNHvt5HSg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> TAMURA Kent >>>>>> Software Engineer, Google >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAGH7WqGmooLg362nFsWDC7JaYt3RaztUfccdtT5%2BA4_QFNJWJA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAGH7WqGmooLg362nFsWDC7JaYt3RaztUfccdtT5%2BA4_QFNJWJA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> TAMURA Kent >>>> Software Engineer, Google >>>> >>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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