Thanks for being flexible here! LGTM1 to deprecate the first set of keywords (below < 0.001% use). Thanks for coming back to us about the second set.
Best, Alex On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 4:18:11 PM UTC-7 Di Zhang wrote: > Thanks to the advice above, I have done some improvements to the > deprecation warning and how/when it will get shown to the user. > > After discussing with the DOM team, we have decided to split the feature > into two parts. We will divide *NonStandardAppearanceValues* into two > features: > *NonStandardAppearanceValuesLowUsage*: All keywords currently at usage < > 0.001. > * media-slider at 0.000361 > * media-sliderthumb at 0.000187 > * media-volume-slider at 0.000143 > * media-volume-sliderthumb at 0.000109 > * sliderthumb-horizontal at 0.000182 > * sliderthumb-vertical at 0.000014 > > These will get removed as part of 118 and go through a slow rollout > release through Finch (before enabling in stable) > > *NonStandardAppearanceValuesHighUsage*: All keywords currently at usage > >= 0.001. > * inner-spin-button at 0.0256 > * searchfield-cancel-button at 0.058 > * slider-horizontal at 0.008 > * push-button at 0.217 > * square-button at 0.0027 > > These will need a few milestones to show deprecation issue and should be > re-evaluated (maybe around M120). We might find ways to reduce the numbers > by targeting some CSS import or popular sites. > Please let me know if this plan sounds good and I will update the > chromestatus description accordingly. > On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 2:34:39 AM UTC-7 Daniel Bratell wrote: > >> That sounds good! Considering that the number in the use counter is >> already so low, it should be enough to show that a majority of the users >> only use the value that will not be removed and I'd be happy to see this >> ship. >> >> /Daniel >> On 2023-07-27 22:01, Di Zhang wrote: >> >> Hi, >> I had a talk with Chris and Mason, who helped me better understand the >> steps for 2-3. I will aggregate more metrics data and share them in a >> google doc here soon. >> * What are the websites that uses these values most >> * What elements are they using the CSS property on, are there rendering >> differences once disabled? >> * Why are some of these value's counter higher than the aggregated >> WebFeature::kCSSValueAppearanceNonStandard >> Thanks, >> Di >> >> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 5:04:17 PM UTC-7 Di Zhang wrote: >> >>> Hi Alex, >>> It's great to have support on this deprecation. Since we feel a >>> deprecation period of 117 to 120 is too short, I just removed the target >>> milestone. It can be updated once we have better metric pulses. >>> >>> For suggestion 1, the wpt test appearance-cssom-001.html >>> <http://wpt.live/css/css-ui/appearance-cssom-001.html?include=Invalid>actually >>> >>> list all of them. >>> For Chrome, we are failing the 11 listed on this feature as well as 1 >>> slider-vertical (for both appearance and -webkit-appearance). >>> For Firefox, everything is passing: it only supports standard appearance >>> values. >>> For Safari, it is failing for the newly added 3 push-button, >>> slider-horizontal, square-button [1], 1 internal apple-pay-button, and the >>> same 1 slider-vertical. >>> >>> WebFeature::kCSSValueAppearanceNonStandard is currently tracking for all >>> non-standard values, including slider-vertical. I could make them into 2 >>> different WebFeatures as I suspect slider-vertical is high usage value (as >>> it affects how <input type=range> gets rendered). Splitting it might >>> decrease the usage percentage. >>> >>> Suggestions 2 and 3 are great, I don't know how to best start on them. >>> >>> [1] >>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8506#issuecomment-1515062326 was >>> resolved April 2023 >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Di >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 3:48:55 PM UTC-7 Alex Russell wrote: >>> >>>> Hey Di, >>>> >>>> Thanks for taking compat seriously. >>>> >>>> We chatted about this at API OWNERS this morning, and there'd broad >>>> support for the deprecation. There's also concern about the relatively >>>> short deprecation window, but maybe there are some ways we can build >>>> confidence? Some ideas that were contributed by Mike, Yoav, and Chris: >>>> >>>> >>>> - Perhaps we can look to see which keywords in this proposal are >>>> unsupported in other engines? E.g., if it's not compatible to use it >>>> across >>>> Gecko, WebKit, and Blink today, perhaps it's easier to remove. >>>> - A spot check of the big users of these values to understand if >>>> there are patterns. Perhaps there's a single library, or embedded >>>> script, >>>> that represents the bulk of use, which might lead us to some quick wins >>>> for >>>> driving down use (e.g., targeted outreach). >>>> - DevRel might be able to help spread the word about deprecation. >>>> >>>> In general, I think there's support for marking this as deprecated >>>> quickly, but it might be better if we agree to revisit the removal date >>>> based on evidence in the future. WDYT? >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 4:03:15 PM UTC-7 Di Zhang wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for the feedback. The counter does feel high, I will follow the >>>>> Deprecation steps [1] and extend the milestones (likely DevTrial 117 and >>>>> Shipping 3 milestones later at 120). >>>>> >>>>> [1] >>>>> https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/core/frame/deprecation/README.md >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 11:29:06 PM UTC-7 Yoav Weiss wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks!! So IIUC, any usage will result in rendering changes? If >>>>>> that's indeed the case, I think it makes sense to try and drive usage >>>>>> down >>>>>> before changing behavior.. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2023 at 12:08 AM TAMURA, Kent <tk...@chromium.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Valid appearance keywords have some side-effects even though they >>>>>>> have no special painting. >>>>>>> * Skip border painting >>>>>>> * 'display' property value is changed to 'inline-block' or >>>>>>> 'block'. So some properties such as 'width' 'height' are not ignored. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <p> >>>>>>> <span style="border:2px solid red; height:3em; background:yellow; >>>>>>> appearance:media-slider;">Valid</span> >>>>>>> <span style="border:2px solid red; height:3em; background:yellow; >>>>>>> appearance:foobar;">Invalid</span> >>>>>>> </p> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 5:00 PM Yoav Weiss <yoavwe...@chromium.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> tkent@ - can you expand on the compat risk? It's not immediately >>>>>>>> obvious to me what these apps were doing that resulted in a rendering >>>>>>>> difference. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023, 03:45 TAMURA, Kent <tk...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Removing appearance keywords which have no painting code >>>>>>>>> might have compatibility issues. We removed the keyword "caret" in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> past, and it caused issues like crbug.com/944023. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The counter for this is >>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/4416. >>>>>>>>> The value is 0.005 - 0.02. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I recommend having a deprecation period before removal. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 3:54 AM Di Zhang <dizha...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Contact emails dizha...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Explainer None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>>>> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-ui-4/#appearance-switching >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Since only standard appearance keywords should be supported, we >>>>>>>>>> are removing the appearance (and -webkit-appearance) keywords that >>>>>>>>>> shouldn't be supported anymore: * inner-spin-button * media-slider * >>>>>>>>>> media-sliderthumb * media-volume-slider * media-volume-sliderthumb * >>>>>>>>>> push-button * searchfield-cancel-button * slider-horizontal * >>>>>>>>>> sliderthumb-horizontal * sliderthumb-vertical * square-button Note >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> value "slider-vertical" will not be removed as part of this patch it >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> used for allowing <input type=range> vertical. It will be removed >>>>>>>>>> once >>>>>>>>>> feature FormControlsVerticalWritingModeSupport is enabled in stable. >>>>>>>>>> Previously, if using any of the above keywords, a console warning >>>>>>>>>> will be >>>>>>>>>> shown, but the keyword will be recognized as a valid value. With the >>>>>>>>>> feature enabled, there will be no console warning. The appearance >>>>>>>>>> property >>>>>>>>>> will be ignored and set to the empty string. The use count (under >>>>>>>>>> WebFeature::kCSSValueAppearanceNonStandard) is at 0.005985% as of >>>>>>>>>> July 2023 >>>>>>>>>> [3]. [1] https://drafts.csswg.org/css-ui-4/#appearance-switching >>>>>>>>>> [2] >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/8506#issuecomment-1515062326 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [3] >>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTP-wXiSV9_dSbbs4OEH-XqP0hakmoTwmEBkEJ-EAI3vDmlXxWMdHvCYl01QqUHm7q6iw8ubK0d3xk1/pub >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Blink component Blink>CSS >>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ECSS> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> TAG review None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> TAG review status Not applicable >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This feature only affects the reflection in computed style. >>>>>>>>>> Currently, while it is possible to set an appearance value with one >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> these non-standard values, it will not affect the appearance of that >>>>>>>>>> element. Now, if appearance is set to one of these non-standard >>>>>>>>>> values, the >>>>>>>>>> returned computed appearance value will be auto. It is unlikely >>>>>>>>>> websites >>>>>>>>>> depend on this information: this deprecation should be web >>>>>>>>>> compatible. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Gecko*: Shipped/Shipping >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *WebKit*: No signal >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Web developers*: No signals >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Other signals*: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ergonomics >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There are no other platform APIS this will be used in tandem with >>>>>>>>>> and this will not make it hard for chrome to maintain good >>>>>>>>>> performance. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Activation >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There should be no challenge for developers to take advantage of >>>>>>>>>> this feature immediately. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> N/A >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> WebView application risks >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, >>>>>>>>>> such that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based >>>>>>>>>> applications? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The non-standard appearance values we are removing are already >>>>>>>>>> not listed in the autocomplete in DevTools. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms >>>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>>>>>>> Yes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>> ? Yes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Flag name on chrome://flags RemoveNonStandardAppearanceValue >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Finch feature name >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Non-finch justification None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? False >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=924486 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>>>>>> Shipping on desktop 117 >>>>>>>>>> DevTrial on desktop 115 >>>>>>>>>> Shipping on Android 117 >>>>>>>>>> DevTrial on Android 115 >>>>>>>>>> Shipping on WebView 117 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web >>>>>>>>>> compat or interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to >>>>>>>>>> known >>>>>>>>>> github issues in the project for the feature specification) whose >>>>>>>>>> resolution may introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to >>>>>>>>>> naming >>>>>>>>>> or structure of the API in a non-backward-compatible way). >>>>>>>>>> None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5066630972833792 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BSS7eAE3At9QiJ-XymVFxUc7Z2%2B06xGTBOk%2B%3D7sGGNHvt5HSg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CA%2BSS7eAE3At9QiJ-XymVFxUc7Z2%2B06xGTBOk%2B%3D7sGGNHvt5HSg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> TAMURA Kent >>>>>>>>> Software Engineer, Google >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAGH7WqGmooLg362nFsWDC7JaYt3RaztUfccdtT5%2BA4_QFNJWJA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAGH7WqGmooLg362nFsWDC7JaYt3RaztUfccdtT5%2BA4_QFNJWJA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> TAMURA Kent >>>>>>> Software Engineer, Google >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "blink-dev" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/08b21853-52aa-4eaf-8224-a69aa747b665n%40chromium.org >> >> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/08b21853-52aa-4eaf-8224-a69aa747b665n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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