At 1:07 AM +0000 1/1/03, nrf wrote: > > >I would just like to reiterate that the graduate degree (master's or PhD) >provides you a whole lot more flexibility than the CCIE ever can.
Agreed, with respect to finding jobs. But a caveat -- once you have a track record, the knowledge is more important than the credential, especially if you've been in the field for a while. I certainly will agree that the learning and thinking modes are different between CCIE and computer science PhD, but they are complementary. I am _NOT_ saying don't get certifications, especially in the earlier parts of your career (after your immediate college opportunities have passed). I'm saying they are one part of a whole. Take the example of the IETF or IRTF. The only time I can think of that someone's degree comes up, or doesn't, is usually when someone is annoyed at Tony Li and refers to him as Dr. Li. Vint Cerf gets called Vint, although his signal honor is that he's about the only person that shows up at the IETF in a three-piece suit and doesn't get assumed to be a marketdroid. One of the big problems with OSI development is that the meetings tended to be attended by professional standards-meeting-goers who had never written or tested a line of code. >With a >graduate degree, you can branch out far and beyond network engineering. And also with knowledge that comes from the true theoretical background. In this economy, I'll take what I can get. Luckily, some of what I get is in cardiology and pharmacology, and I know medicine well enough to conceive and propose diagnostic and treatment algorithms. I'm probably picking up a contract in the AVVID area, and, while I may not be up on the command set of the most recent product, I feel very comfortable in my understanding of the theory and the more recent technology. > >To illustrate, take a look at Cisco's top management. You will find nary a >one who carries a CCIE. By and large, this is true in development engineering but not the TAC. There are some CCIEs that have moved from support into development, but I can't think of a key developer (including those that moved to Juniper, etc.) that has a CCIE. Nobody in my router research group at Nortel had any certifications, unless you count my inactive CCSI and *blush* my 1972 Registered Business Programmer, attesting to COBOL skill. > > >So, again, it really all depends on what you want. If you're perfectly cool >with slinging boxes for the rest of your life, then by all means ditch >college and just get the CCIE. But if you think you'll ever have any >ambitions for anything else, get that degree. The degree is much more important than when I started -- at a time when there were no CS degree programs. Still, even if you can't go back to school, the theoretical knowledge is out there, sometimes in IETF/NANOG/IRTF/RIPE documents, some in professional society (IEEE, ACM) archives, some in the publications of academics and research centers (e.g., CAIDA). You can get involved with mailing lists and local professional societies, and start writing and speaking to get some reputation. > >And, once again, I would reiterate that while you might be cool with >slinging boxes now, 20 years later who knows how you'll feel? I constantly >run into a lot of old-timers who regret not having gotten their education >and are simply tired of taking orders from some 20-something manager. My variant is explaining to a 22-year-old programmer (with no degree) that is concerned that I might "break something" given a UNIX root password, and trying gently to remind him that I was administering UNIX systems when he was still being toilet-trained -- and I know UNIX networking better than he does. No, I don't want a neato-keen web interface since I'm only talking between computers -- I want to spawn subprocesses on the particular system, and know the internal IP addresses and well-known ports for some of the other machines. *sigh* Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=60063&t=59481 -------------------------------------------------- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
