Interesting question. Some thoughts from someone that does have a PhD
in CS (dissertation in networking, a dozen or so publications, a handful
in IEEE journals). I initially went into gradual school to teach and do
research, but after spending two summers during grad school as an intern
in industry, realized that I was much more interested in working in
industry than staying in academia. When I completed my PhD, I took a
job in
industry.
Much like John mentions, comparing the two is like comparing apples
and oranges. The material covered in each area is very different. A
PhD is much more theory oriented and there's a lot more of the "why"
types
of thinking. Obviously, this sort of questioning is needed and helps
lead
one to dissertation topics and an actual research question. Besides the
initial reading list you get from your advisor, you're on your own to
find related research, develop your ideas, verify that your work is
unique,
and then get it published before someone else stumbles across the same
idea.
And note, there are several hoops one needs to go through to get a PhD,
and
failing any one of these can cause you to get booted from your program.
In order, these steps are:
1) pass your prelims which are a test of breadth of knowledge in all the
main areas in your subject area. The way prelims where structured where
I
went to school, we had test and pass in 4 of 5 core areas (systems,
languages,
theory, algorithms, and architecture) and 4 non-core areas (networking
fell into
this space)
2) pass your comprehensives ("comps", test that you have detailed
knowledge in the area you intend to do research). The format for comps
is often a series of probing verbal questions asked by each member of
your
comittee that you answer in real-time.
3) pass your proposal (this is where you propose the topic/question you
intend to research/solve. Besides a verbal defense, this requires a
failry
extensive document be written which details the existing research space,
and how
your work will fit in, etc.)
4) do the research and write up your dissertation
5) defend your dissertation. It's often easiest to prove your
dissertation is
worthy of a degree if you have many peer reviewed publications, so add
lots of publications to step 4 above.
I don't have a CCIE, so can't say for sure, but here's my take on doing
the exams up to and including the CCIE written. Everyone gets the list
of
books to read, and if you know the information in these references,
you'll
pass the tests. Note that with commercial study guides, practice labs,
practice tests, and courses geared specifically to pass these tests,
there's
plenty of external help available to help make it through the CCIE
written.
As far as I know, as long as your willing to pay, you can take the tests
over and
over again until you pass. This aspect is not true when working on a
PhD.
The CCIE lab does seem to be a much more robust evaluation mechanism as
it appears to require much more "on your own" sort of preparation.
Using the framework above, the tests up through a CCIE written might
fall into
something like the "prelims". But prelims cover a much wider range of
material.
One might be able to classify the CCIE lab sort of like the "comps" one
takes
in working towards a PhD. I don't think I'd classify the CCIE lab as
equivalent
to a PhD as there's a lot more required in doing a PhD than knowing a
lot about
some specific area.
So which path should one take? I think it depends. Having a HS diploma
and
a CCIE most likely will not open doors for one to teach at a
univerisity. On
the other hand, having a PhD doesn't necessarily mean one can design an
enterprise
let alone an ISP network.
I'd suggest balance. Get a four year degree and supplement with a
CCNP. Work
for a while. Determine if it makes sense from a job/career perspective
to move
on to a MS/PhD or onto a CCIE, or neither, or both....
John Neiberger wrote:
>
> MS- or PhD-level coursework is more difficult than what you'll run into
> studying for the CCIE, but they don't really cover the same subject
> matter so it's really apples and oranges. I personally don't even have
> a BS--which I regret--but it wouldn't help much in my current position
> anyway, except possibly for promotions or raises, which is important,
> but it wouldn't help me do my job any better.
>
> IMO, someone who pursues an MS or PhD is not planning on remaining a
> network technician for long; they probably have loftier goals. A CCIE
> with no degree, on the other hand, likely enjoys the technical side of
> things. I often heard it lamented that many CCIEs who are loving life
> as senior engineers end up being placed into management positions that
> they hate. Just because someone is advanced in a technical area does
> not necessarily make them management material. OTOH, someone with an MS
> or PhD is quite often management material, but not necessarily the first
> person you'd call with a general networking question. That depends on
> their area of emphasis, of course.
>
> So, my opinion? You're compairing apples to oranges, but an MS or PhD
> is tougher than CCIE if you're going to a reputable school.
>
> Regards,
> John
>
> >>> "Black Jack" 12/18/02 12:05:01 PM >>>
> I suppose a CCIE is sort of a Ph.D. of networking. Studying for and
> taking
> the written is the equivalent of coursework, then doing hands-on to
> prepare
> for the lab is like research for your dissertation, the the lab test
> represents the oral exam. But I wouldn't stretch the analogy too far.
> For
> one thing the quality and difficulty of computer science graduate
> schools
> varies greatly. Just getting into one of the top programs is probably
> harder
> than CCIE. And for another the two programs don't really test the same
> skills, do they? (Though they surely overlap)
>
> Mic shoeps wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > I've been arguing with a collegue of mine which one would be
> > tougher to achieve. I told him that it would be much more
> > harder to have a computer science or a networking degree (you
> > have to take the GRE and complete 2 or 3 years of school works)
> > than a CCIE, but my collegue think other wise. He literally
> > believes that having a CCIE is equivalent of having a Ph.d in
> > Networking. I'd like to hear your thought.
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