Mark,I doubt the guy is being deliberately dishonest about any of his
descriptions. He probably believes everything. What I noticed as I shopped
for a boat was that most of the brokers were more upfront about condition than
the owners trying to sell on there own. Lets face it, we overlook things
sometimes as "not so bad" because either we would rather spend the boat bucks
on something else, or it seems like too much of a pain in the butt to deal with
right now...whatever. The point is we convince ourselves that things are not
as bad as they seem sometimes. Now, add to the mix that you want someone to
buy your boat and you have a price that you would like to get for it. I think
you are going to be even more willing to overlook the condition of things.
After all, you first have to convince yourself that your asking price is fair.
I must have looked 25 boats in my search over 2 years. Almost non of the for
sale by owner boats were in the condition described. I don't think any of
them, except one, were deliberately misrepresenting their boat. In fact, I
pretty much liked all of them. I think it was an emotional assessment that led
them to either not disclose something or overstate condition. On the other
hand, the brokers want to move boats. They know an over priced boat is going
to sit and sit. There is nothing in it for them to over price a boat. I had
brokers tell me about blistering and soft spots right over the phone. they
didn't want to waste their time meeting, showing, and opening up a boat if it
wasn't as described. I walked away disappointed from for sale by owner boats
way more often than brokered boats. I got to a point that if the description
did not give the age of the sails, they needed replaced. It seemed that, if
anyone bought sails within the previous 12, or so, years, they listed the year
they were purchased. My research made clear that sails are generally
completely bagged out by 10 years unless serviced and resewn. Then 15 years
might be your usable life. Bagged out sails really make for unexpected
reactions to the wind. If you are looking at a reputedly tender boat, bagged
out sails will certainly make it WAY more tender. It's the shape that goes,
not the material. I ended up buying new sails for both of my boats and I'm
glad I did. New sails just handle the wind and the gusts better. Another thing
I noticed was that broker listed boats, where the broker actually returned
calls, were, generally, more fairly priced. I went out hunting a few times
because some of the un-returned calls were on boats that looked great in the
adds but, upon finding them on my own, I understood the un-returned calls. So,
I just kept looking and looking and looking until something felt right. Anyway,
those are my insights and experiences. worth every bit of $0.02 American or
Canadian or Australian for that matter, I think! DannyLolita1973 Viking
33Westport Point, MA
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Stevan Plavsa <stevanpla...@gmail.com>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Another boat
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2013 23:36:04 -0400
Keep looking and don't settle. I got my 32 for 18k, that's right in your
ballpark. I was originally looking for 27s and 29s but I didn't find any that
were reasonably priced or even in reasonable shape. I went to look at the 32 on
a whim because it was the closest boat to me, and a broker boat no less ..
something I'de been avoiding up to that point. I had driven to NY to look at
boats on the south shore of Lake Ontario, not a complete waste of time because
it helped me compare and understand the market better.� And you know
what? The 32, literally 5 minutes from my house, was easily in way better shape
than any of the boats I'de looked at up to that point. I was sold on it
instantly. It was more boat than I hoped for and it was in reach. Life is short
and I can be pretty impulsive so I made an offer, had it surveyed and bought
the boat. I think the PO was happy to get the 18k and I think he was happy to
deal with me, we got along great. Some other guy was in line before me but he
was a huge hassle for the seller. I lucked out, the PO was a great guy.
�I don't race so my requirements may be different than yours. My boat is
a freshwater boat and it surveyed well. The sails were worn out and I just
spent $1600 (shipping in!) all told on a genoa from Rolly Tasker, it's a great
sail and an incredible value. The main is still usable and will be for a couple
of years yet. Canvas is still good, not great, but doesn't need replacing. ....
but I have spent a lot. I've spent money refurbishing the
head/tanks/freshwater/wiring/instruments/stereo/solar and the list goes on. A
boat that has had that stuff done is worth more, but then, if you do it
yourself it's really YOUR boat. My boat is MY boat! I EARNED it because I fixed
the shit out of it!� SteveSuhana, C&C 32Toronto
On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Knowles Rich <r...@sailpower.ca> wrote:
How about having a peek at my LF 38 just to get another picture?
Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF 38
Halifax NS
On 2013-08-01, at 20:27, "Dr. Mark Bodnar" <drbod...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the comments.
>
> Danny - Yes - I'm aware the "good condition" sails and the "year or 2" left
> in the canvas are pointing at need for replacement before long. �Guy
> selling the boat seems pretty straight, so I don't think he's over valuing
> the sails and they are totally shot.
> As for the Nada value and the price - it is my understanding the NADA value
> is US based, boats locally list for a lot more than that. �Not much I
> can do other than buy a boat in the US and ship/sail it back. �As
> Mike noted - the cost of that adds up quickly. �Rough quote to ship a
> 30 back from NY was over $6000 by land. �I could have it sailed back
> for $2000, but I'd still have the expense of going down to look and having
> to pay for required repairs at a unfamiliar yard before it could sail home.
>
> Bob's example of a good condition 29 for $13500 - plus the cradle ends up
> being ~$15500. Then add the cost of getting it home (either I take a week
> off work or I pay to have it sailed back) - total $17-18000. �He
> likely has better sails but the price is pretty close in the end.
>
> In this case the boat has a pretty good trailer - value of ~ $2000, saving
> me the cost of buying a cradle. �Another 29-2 for sale locally is
> listed at $26000 with racing sails. �30's listed for $22-30000 (at
> the cheaper end they are in rough shape, needing new sails and deck work).
>
> Having looked at this boat I think I'd be happy to get it for $17000 - but I
> doubt he'll sell it for that. �Maybe I'm off in my value because all
> the boat prices are listed so high and the actual selling prices are much
> lower.
>
> Stevan - I had my eye on a nice 32 - but it sold (apparently in brilliant
> shape and sold for ~$30000). �I'd consider anything from a 29 to a
> 33. �Still trying to keep costs down (total purchase and up-keep)
> while finding a boat big enough to enjoy with the kids. 29 is the smallest I
> think that could work. �When I was on a 33 2weeks ago it seemed huge
> inside, yet not much more useable space.
>
> In the end my local options are limited and the prices are higher than areas
> with a lot more population. �I could buy cheaper but most seem to
> need more work. �I could travel, but that adds costs. �For a
> good looking boat that fits my needs and my eye, I'll pay a bit extra for
> ease of getting it local, but don't want to get fleeced. �Hopefully I
> can convince him that my price is fair, but I expect he'll think I'm
> low-balling.
>
> Thanks for the advice
> Mark
>
>
> ---------------------
> �Dr. Mark Bodnar
> B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
> Bedford Chiropractic
> www.bedfordchiro.ca
> ---------------------
>
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
> �- George Santayana
>
> On 01/08/2013 9:48 AM, Hoyt, Mike wrote:
>> It will cost a lot more than 4000 to get the LIS boat to canada.
>> �Cradle
>> alone is 1500. �You will have to ship the 29 by road and that will be
>> pricey. �The local boat is a serious bargain compared to the US one.
>> This is more true if the trailer is road worthy and not junk
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dr.
>> Mark Bodnar
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 10:30 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Stus-List Another boat
>>
>>
>> Seriously looking at another boat. �Checked out a local C&C 29 mkII
>> on
>> Sunday.
>>
>> http://novascotia.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-boats-watercraft-sailboats-C
>> -C-29-MK-II-W0QQAdIdZ474384947
>>
>> Overall the boat looked good. �The paint job on the hull was rough
>> (needs a good sanding and new bottom coat).
>>
>> The boat is on a trailer - which makes it easier to move the 90 min
>> drive home, and the trailer allows for easier yard management (assuming
>> the hoist can get the boat high enough to put it to bed).
>> He reports the sails in "good shape" (but no spinnaker), engine
>> supposedly runs well (not in water to test), hull looks good with no
>> dimples or dings (although there is some minor damage at the stern where
>>
>> someone likely backed into a slip too hard), teak and holly sole is a
>> bit rough (no mold but finish is beat up), dodger and sail cover
>> reported to "have a year or 2 left in them", cushions ok (few years left
>>
>> in fabric)
>>
>> The seller is asking $22500. �Maybe offer $17000-18000 firm?
>>
>> (I have had a few emails with a new list member, Bob Dryer, looking to
>> sell a C&C 29 II in Long Island sound for $14500 --- but that's a long
>> way away, hard to look at the boat plus the cost of getting it back and
>> the fact that I'd have to buy a cradle - all together, if I can get a
>> local boat for $4000 the price is pretty even)
>>
>> NADA average value of a 1983 C&C 29 II is $13000
>> -----------------
>> Also - Thinking of looking at a Cal 9.2, 1982, listed at $20000
>> http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-boats-watercraft-sailboats-Cal-
>> 9-2-Sailboat-Price-Reduced-W0QQAdIdZ493465591
>> (NADA value at $13800)
>> Plus another Cal 9.2 listed at $15K (but no pictures).
>>
>> Any thoughts? �I'm not familiar with the Cal boats. �Reading
>> online the
>> comments are that the Cal is more tender and that the diesel is raw
>> water cooled (which can lead to more issues as they age). Overall online
>>
>> comments are not positive - seems the design may play to the worst parts
>>
>> of the IOR rules. Also some negative comments about decks etc.
>>
>> I don't want a poorly behaved boat that I can't manage in gusty winds or
>>
>> something that will ruin sailing for the kids --- maybe I'm answering my
>>
>> own thoughts on the Cal? Can't say I like the way the pinched rear end
>> looks either!
>>
>> Any thoughts appreciated,
>> Mark
>
>
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