On Friday 21 April 2006 02:53 pm, Philip Brown wrote: > If "everyone is the same", then there would be no point in having > "discussions with the community", becuase sun would already know everything > that everyone wants. because "everyone is the same."
No, I think you miss the point (or I miss it;-). Sun seems to want to sort these issues out and be able to work with the community. Rather than blind siding them (seems you even made reference to Sun doing such) with a decision which the community at large didn't have any control over, Sun wants to hold a dialog with the community and work it out. At least this is how I was proposing my message. > Clearly, sun does not know or understand everything people outside sun > want, therefore, the premise is false. False again. Sun has many developers that participate in open source projects, many of them on their own time for free just as you've pointed out for yourself. Some of them have restrictions on what they can speak about for "internal knowledge", for better or worse of a term. Remember there are still some closed binaries, and ON is only a subset of the software that Sun will most likely open source, but I am no authority on that and can only speculate as anyone in the community can (IOW, I'm not working those issues). > The whole point of having these mailing lists here on opensolaris.org, is > because people inside sun are not seeing what "the community" outside > sun needs and wants. Nor would they be expected to. This is partially true, but there are thousands of engineers inside Sun, and there is a lot of participation in various forums (java.net, yahoo, opensolaris.org, usenet, etc...). The advantage of opensolaris.org for me is that I know those folks and can ping them down the hall if there's something needed. I don't know the java.net folks. > Everyone is NOT the same. Everone will never be the same. > A full-time sun employee is not, and will never be, the same as someone > who works full-time outside sun. Failing to recognize that, is a fatal > logical flaw. It's like falling victim to the PC (politically correct) > police, and claiming "men and woman are the same!" > All the political warm fuzzies and sheepleading in the world, will not > change the real-life fact that they are not the same. You make it sound as if we're aliens. Sun employees are no different than any other developers, they eat, sleep (sometimes;-), and put their pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else. I do not see a distinction for the long term, in regards to how Sun's employees or community folks decide to develop and enhance Solaris/OpenSolaris. This is and should be one and the same to be successful. I don't get it Phil. One side of you keeps pointing out how closed we are, and how we don't want to work with the outside and will ever do that. When Sun actually decides to be open and want to work with the community on the same level, you immediately jump back and claim foul as if thier intention is to trick you. In some ways I hear you supporting the way things have been done in the past, or how they are being done now. This will not work, Sun needs to change and adapt to an open source environment. And it's people like Keith, Bonnie, Karen, Jim, Eric, et al, that have been doing a great job at driving that effort to get many of the obstacles through the very legal system inside of Sun that put much of it in place over the years to begin with. -- Alan DuBoff - Sun Microsystems Solaris x86 Engineering
