On Mon, 2003-03-31 at 14:34, Buchan Milne wrote: > On Mon, 30 Mar 2003, James Sparenberg wrote: > > > > I fail to see why a laptop needs vastly different software to a dekstop > > > machine. > > > > > > Does Apple have a laptop version of OS X? > > Yes > > Please show me where I can buy it (and I don't mean bundled, OEM is OEM, > Mandrake also does OEM, but this is not what we are talking about). > > > > Does windows have a laptop version of Windows XP? > > Yes > > > > Again, show me where I can buy it without a machine.
That is next to impossible no matter what. You can only get a copy around here if you buy a laptop at the same time.... M$ licensing > > > Problem is you don't see it. It's integrated into one. IE you buy the > > product installed. But there are differences. > > So, are you talking OEM then? In many ways yes. > > We have about 70 Windows machines here, only 4 of them came pre-installed, > and many are laptops (although we avoid XP where we can, only 2 came with > XP). A number of the rest are laptops. > > > > Laptops, the hardware in them The rpms/features needed are perceptually > > different from desktops. Realize this..... MDK for laptops will be 99% > > the same as any other. In that rpms etc built here are just lined up in > > a different order, or ignored. Things that could be dropped are ..... > > support for NIC cards (non PCMCIA ones. > > Some on-board NIC drivers (RTL-3139D is quite popular on laptops) are > identical to the drivers for PCI cards. You can also have PCI extensions > on docking stations AFAIK. I was thinking pcmcia but you are right for like tulip etc. > > > Put in updates to pcmcia config > > (and yes I sent in a large file to the MDK maintainer of missing / > > changed cards.) > > You can run PCMCIA on desktops with PCI adapters. True but the hardware is often flaky and fragile... > > > Mostly though it's a marketing thing. SuSE now has the > > Office release... I've looked at it..It's not very different from > > personal. BUT the box says SuSE for Office. It must be better, right? > > But who is going to buy it. Can Mandrakesoft afford to market and support > (think Vince ...) a seperate laptop distro? This has to be a decision by Duval and others. > > > Does have one nice point... no games. With disk space becoming a > > premium.. this may ease the pain as well. BTW I've been testing Beta1 > > et all and reporting since 6.x so yes I know it helps. Remember though > > one thing. The people with the really big bucks, don't have time for > > beta testing. aka the corporate world. They want results a product that > > works. > > But how does this relate to laptops? Do they not want their desktop > machines to just work? Yes... but more and more here in the valley companies are moving from desktops to laptops. They really do have a number of benefits over desktops for them. Wireless being the biggest force moving them. Wireless for desktops has some physical advantages but the ability to assemble mobile groups around laptops is being seen as a very real advantage. As I speak with these people I am being confronted with a number of "needs" 1. Ability to monitor and control updates. 2. Usability/Reliability 3. Dependability of install base to work across a large list of hardware. The third one is often the showstopper on Linux when it comes to laptops. Take my laptop. ACPI works under win98 or newer. Wireless works with a number or cards. Cardbus 32 bit cards work under windows. But under Linux it's a fight for all of them.(one by the way I'm losing with acpi and CardBus... maybe even wireless.) When asked what version of Linux I recommend for desktops or laptops, I've always been able to say MDK and say it with solid reasons and examples. I see a market, and I would be lax to not mention that. > > > In this world connecting to the company exchange server from > > worldwide locations is a lot more important than 3d acceleration. > > We don't have Exchange, but we would be out of jobs if 3d acceleration did > not work on our new 3d-modelling laptops (rapid prototyping of automotive > components for one of our customers, we send people there to do modelling > work for them). Granted, we don't use linux on them ... yet. Pro\E is > coming to linux soon, and then we might. Ok I can see that. 95% of the people I'm in contact with are concerned with clarity of 2d more than 3d. > > > Each > > world has it's own need. Mandrakes need is money. I'm just letting > > them know what people I know need. > > You really need yet another OS to support? > > The one thing about Linux is that it allows you to standardise, having > multiple distros just because some hardware needs one extra driver or one > extra user-space tool is ridiculous. If we do this, then should we remove > SCSI and RAID drivers from the standard distro so we can make a server > edition that has them (also, we can remove mt, mtx etc). More and more I'm seeing people use this > > None of the problems you have mentioned can not be addressed by a single > x86 distro. > > The only thing that would help is more work being done on the apsects > affecting laptops, but increasing everyone's workload to make a seperate > distro is not going to help. In many ways you are right. I'm not advocating a fork in anything but marketing aim. Whether packaged as a single box with a chapter in the book just for laptops or in separate boxes is less important that being able to do it. Maybe all that is needed is a check box that is a laptop install, and it takes into account the differences. Maybe too I need a laptop that is better supported. (It's a Compaq Armada btw) What's less important is the way it's done. What's more important is that it is done. I'd rather not quibble on the details and achieve the objective. Things like the ability to install from firewire or USB CD-Rom drives. Wireless that can be configured during install. (my wireless card wasn't detected during install but was detected after.) All small things visual but big to those who need / use it. James
