Yeah... I really don't know what to do with "the resistance", "the ignorance" (as in, both the practice of intentionally ignoring my results, and otherwise)... etc.. Many of us are so used to both naming and processing at such granularity... it'd take the whole world for change to happen and I hope we could work together instead of against each other.
If we sustain the w hackery, we are hurting ourselves / our students in the end. From the tech point of view, things are getting ever finer and our hardware can take on more, I don't know what ppl have in mind if/when they want our next gen to be quibbling about things like "is ... a w*rd?" or whether the w boundary should be placed exactly here or there.... I suggested in "Fairness in Representation <https://openreview.net/pdf?id=-llS6TiOew>" that we should use clearer nomenclature: "one can simply describe languages and their statistical profiles with respect to their representational granularity in characters or bytes (which are and/or can be exhaustively standardized in computing), or refer to sequences as longer/shorter or having a higher/lower vocabulary size when comparing them with each other, rather than “richer”/“poorer” based on concepts (e.g. “words”, “sentences”) that can be ambiguous, contested, and inaccessible to many." And in the event that our downstream task results are so good already, there will always be room for content creation. That's also what I tried to advocate in the paper: quality multiway datasets for science, eval, and documentation --- I wished the world would give more worth to data. There is a lot of room to translate our engineering back to science, to re-educate students in the lang sci/tech to become more stats savvy, and to re-educate the world about fairness in multilinguality... On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 10:13 PM Daniel HENKEL <daniel.hen...@univ-paris8.fr> wrote: > Not to mention all these shamefully unscientific posts on Corporalist: > > *12th International Global W*rdnet Conference Donostia / San Sebastian, > Basque Country 23-27, 2023 Global W*rdnet Association: > www.globalw*rdnet.org <http://rdnet.org>* > *Conference website: https://hitz.eus/gwc2023 <https://hitz.eus/gwc2023>* > > *18th Workshop on Multiw*rd Expressions (MWE 2022) Organized and sponsored > by SIGLEX, the Special Interest Group on the Lexicon of the ACL* > > *The 5th Workshop on Multi-w*rd Units in Machine Translation and > Translation Technology (MUMTTT 2022) Malaga, 30th September 2022* > > ... > > Definitely time for some lexical/terminological restrictions/updates, for > the sake of goodthink/processing, and science! > > > (actually "science" is heretical/redundant, "goodthink/processing" will do > the job: > > *"As we have already seen in the case of the word FREE, w*rds which had > once borne a heretical meaning were sometimes retained for the sake of > convenience, but only with the undesirable meanings purged out of them. > Countless other w*rds such as HONOUR, JUSTICE, MORALITY, INTERNATIONALISM, > DEMOCRACY, SCIENCE, and RELIGION had simply ceased to exist."*) > > DH > > > > On 20/06/2022 21:47, Daniel HENKEL wrote: > > Looks as if Linguistlist is in need of some scientific enlightenment as > well : > > http://linguistlist.org/issues/33/33-2063.html > > *In the new, thoroughly revised second edition of W*rds of Wonder: > Endangered Languages and What They Tell Us, Second Edition (formerly called > Dying W*rds: Endangered Languages and What They Have to Tell Us), renowned > scholar Nicholas Evans delivers an accessible and incisive text covering > the impact of mass language endangerment. The distinguished author explores > issues surrounding the preservation of indigenous languages, ...* > > (ungood w*rds unw*rded to protect the faint of mind against ungood > thinking/processing). > > Best, > > DH > > > On 20/06/2022 20:27, Ada Wan wrote: > > (I just expounded on a point as a twitter reply today re the granularity > of one's thinking/processing. Pls feel free to read that also.) > > One can think of it in a less binary manner --- not "good" vs "bad", not > "words" then "sentences", but to think of an utterance/sequence with all > the finer connections in between... That is the beauty of language --- from > a "philological" point of view. > > I am not sure, though, if you were speaking from a scientific perspective, > because I have a paper to back my argument in that regard. > > > On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 6:06 PM Sylvain Kahane <sylv...@kahane.fr> wrote: > >> “We’re destroying words–scores of them, hundreds of them, every day. >> We’re cutting the language down to the bone.” […] >> >> “It’s a beautiful thing, the destruction of words. Of course the great >> advantage is in the verbs and adjectives, but there are hundreds of nouns >> that can be got rid of as well. It isn’t only the synonyms; there are also >> the antonyms. After all, what justification is there for a word which is >> simply the opposite of some other words? A word contains its opposite in >> itself. Take ‘good,’ for instance. If you have a word like ‘good,’ what >> need is there for a word like ‘bad’? ‘Ungood’ will do just as well–better, >> because it’s an exact opposite, which the other is not. Or again, if you >> want a stronger version of ‘good,’ what sense is there in having a whole >> string of vague useless words like ‘excellent’ and ‘splendid’ and all the >> rest of them? ‘Plusgood’ covers the meaning, or ‘doubleplusgood’ if you >> want something stronger still. Of course we use those forms already, but in >> the final version of Newspeak there’ll be nothing else. In the end the >> whole notion of goodness and badness will be covered by only six words–in >> reality, only one word. Don’t you see the beauty of that, Ada?…” >> >> George Orwell, 1984 >> >> >> > Le 20 juin 2022 à 17:33, Ada Wan <adawan...@gmail.com> a écrit : >> > >> > Hi Christopher, >> > >> > It is of the best interest of the community to discontinue the usage of >> "word". The term is not only very shaky in its foundation (if any), but it >> can also effect disparity in performance in computational processing and >> robustness when human evaluation is involved. >> > Despite the term has been casually adopted by many in the past, like >> many un-PC terms that may have an inappropriate undertone, it needs to be >> discouraged and abandoned. >> > Last but not least, I noticed that you are located in Canada, in the >> event that you were to work with any indigenous communities, one MUST be >> advised to be careful with the usage of such term --- you could be imposing >> your own (EN- / FR- / dominant language-centric) view onto another >> individual/community. There is an element of cultural and linguistic >> hegemony with the usage of such term (including and not limited to making >> applications with it). >> > Please also consult recent work in this area: >> https://openreview.net/forum?id=-llS6TiOew. >> > >> > Feel free to get in touch if you should have any questions. >> > >> > Best, >> > Ada >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Jun 20, 2022 at 4:53 PM Christopher Collins < >> christopher.coll...@ontariotechu.ca> wrote: >> > Hello, >> > >> > >> > >> > I’m looking for any open source or cloud-hosted solution for complex >> word identification or word difficulty rating in French for a reading >> application. >> > >> > >> > >> > As a backup plan we can use measures like corpus frequency, length, >> number of senses, but we’re hoping someone has already made a tool >> available. >> > >> > >> > >> > We found this but that’s it: https://github.com/sheffieldnlp/cwi >> > >> > >> > >> > Would appreciate any tips! >> > >> > >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > >> > >> > Chris >> > >> > >> > >> > Christopher Collins [he/him] >> > Associate Professor - Faculty of Science >> > Canada Research Chair in Linguistic Information Visualization >> > Ontario Tech University >> > vialab.ca >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > UNSUBSCRIBE from this page: http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora >> > Corpora mailing list -- corpora@list.elra.info >> > To unsubscribe send an email to corpora-le...@list.elra.info >> > _______________________________________________ >> > UNSUBSCRIBE from this page: http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora >> > Corpora mailing list -- corpora@list.elra.info >> > To unsubscribe send an email to corpora-le...@list.elra.info >> >> > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE from this page: http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora > Corpora mailing list -- corpora@list.elra.info > To unsubscribe send an email to corpora-le...@list.elra.info > > -- > Daniel HENKEL <https://univ-paris8.academia.edu/DanielHENKEL> > > *Maître de Conférences (Linguistique et Traduction) UFR5 LLCE-LEA • EA1569 > TransCrit* > Université Paris 8 Vincennes-St-Denis > > > *“non si può stendere una tipologia delle traduzioni, ma al massimo una > tipologia di diversi modi di tradurre, volta per volta negoziando il fine > che ci si propone – e volta per volta scoprendo che i modi di tradurre sono > più di quelli che sospettiamo.”* U. Eco > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE from this page: http://mailman.uib.no/options/corpora > Corpora mailing list -- corpora@list.elra.info > To unsubscribe send an email to corpora-le...@list.elra.info > > -- > Daniel HENKEL <https://univ-paris8.academia.edu/DanielHENKEL> > > *Maître de Conférences (Linguistique et Traduction) UFR5 LLCE-LEA • EA1569 > TransCrit* > Université Paris 8 Vincennes-St-Denis > > > *“non si può stendere una tipologia delle traduzioni, ma al massimo una > tipologia di diversi modi di tradurre, volta per volta negoziando il fine > che ci si propone – e volta per volta scoprendo che i modi di tradurre sono > più di quelli che sospettiamo.”* U. Eco >
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