Hi Manfred.
With thanks to you, Georg, Michael and Philippe.
To clear up a few possible misunderstandings:
Yes, I should have taken time to read the 'standard'.
I have no issue with the concepts of Margin and padding. Sorry if I gave the
wrong impression. I also have no problem with the concept of <hr> being a block
element.
The problems with the varying 'margin' were due to faulty testing, due to
'browser fighting' by me to try to place some 90px text exactly where I wanted
it, with a <hr> beneath, and finding that different browsers gave me vastly
varying margins. Just try the following in several browsers:
<body><style>h1 {font-family:"Times New Roman", Times,
serif;font-size:90px;font-weight:normal;color:#d00;}</style><h1>Some
stuff</h1></body>
and view the differences in transparent space, above and below the letters.
(I'm deliberately avoiding calling it margin or padding, to avoid semantic
confusion).
Depending on the browser, there are different methods needed to address the
actual color of horizontal line in <hr>. My test results are below:
hr {
background-color:#d00; /* Firefox */ Implies that the 'line' is entirely
constructed of padding and transparent space is 'margin'.
color:#d00; /* IE 6 & 7 */ Implies that the line is
classed as text, the element cannot have padding because background-color does
nothing, and its transparent space is 'margin' .
border-color:#d00; /* Opera & Safari */ Implies that the line is classed as
a border, the element cannot have padding because background-color does
nothing, and its transparent space is 'margin' .
margin:0;
padding:0;
}
If one of these methods is the de-facto standard, then <hr> must be classed as
a special case, where some rules of block styling do not apply, or at least one
of the browsers is breaking the rules.
All of this as part of friendly discussion and IMO, of course.
Regards,
Alan.
www.theatreorgans.co.uk
www.virtualtheatreorgans.com
Admin: ConnArtistes, UKShopsmiths, 2nd Touch & A-P groups
Shopsmith 520 + bits
Flatulus Antiquitus
----- Original Message -----
From: Manfred Staudinger
To: Alan K Baker
Cc: css-d
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] <hr /> styling
Hi Alan,
> Without me looking up specifications, if color has no meaning, then how do
you propose > to change the color of a horizontal rule? It is not a border,
neither is it a background, so
> how else would you style its color property? To answer my own question,
Mozilla
> obviously think it's a background element, but then you can't simply put
printable
> characters on top of it, so they are breaking the rules.
If you take a look at the HTML 4.01 Strict DTD
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/sgml/dtd.html
you will see that HR is a block-element (maybe you meant this when you
say "background element")! This answers also your question but in a
different way: looking up the specification is always helpful to learn
what the rules are.
I didn't say you are "making false claims" but you use some basic
notion very freely. When it comes to differentiate between margin and
padding this should be simple: for example the padding takes the
background-color but the margin not. So if you have a block-level
element and you have specified a background-color then the transparent
space is the elements margin area, isn't it?
The code you posted .... looks almost the same in Firefox and IE 6.
Was this your
intention?
Above I showed you that <hr> is defined as a block-level element in
the HTML 4.01 Strict DTD. As long as you don't backup the "foreground
element" with some evidence, I have to assume it's only your personal
opinion.
Manfred
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