Hi, FWIW, the amount of bureaucracy that goes into JIRA is a major contributing factor for the reduction of my time commitment to this project by 80%+.
My limited understanding of the apache way is that it concerns how decision-making and governance happens on an apache project in the context of the inherent incentives of actors behaving on behalf of private organizations. In this context, we preserve the decision-making process within apache.org. The connection with JIRA is that it is hosted on ` apache.org`, which the foundation guarantees availability. Moving discussions from Github to JIRA is the method over which we keep that information preserved and available. The rational being that slack, github, etc. are not hosted by apache and therefore out of the foundations' control. Equally important, JIRA is a board that most projects leverage to prioritize and curate a backlog. The major challenge is that most discussions happen where PRs are created and seen, which is on github, but JIRA and mailing list is used for other types of decisions. In this model, how do we preserve curated information about the decision process while at the same time leverage both JIRA and github's capabilities? OTOH, asking contributors to create a jira account and committers to add the person as contributor, as well as the email spam and the merge process is a large barrier. I admit that there is no easy solution here. The status quo is imo a waste of my personal time, but I get it that there are good arguments on both sides. IMO the foundation could be clearer wrt to what does it mean with information being preserved and available (e.g. on apache servers?) and if yes, follow it through by hosting all their projects on their own github / gitlab / whatever, where issues and PRs are on the same platform, and offer SSO for contributors as a way to prove identity across the system. But that is also a complex operation with a lot of unknowns... Best, Jorge On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 2:48 AM Sutou Kouhei <k...@clear-code.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Can we discuss whether we change the platform of a single point > of truth for developer activity to GitHub from JIRA? Can we > follow "The Apache Way" with GitHub? What pros/cons do we > have by changing the platform to GitHub from JIRA? Should we > keep using JIRA for the platform? > > Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > -- > kou > > In <CAFhtnRwsqe-zJYV-nRKa+jKbRacoke4tPbe1_w=4mp0bjng...@mail.gmail.com> > "Re: Requirements on JIRA usage in Apache Arrow" on Sat, 27 Feb 2021 > 15:48:04 -0500, > Andrew Lamb <al...@influxdata.com> wrote: > > > Here is a proposed improvement to merge_pr.py that will offer to create a > > JIRA issue from a github PR if one does not exist: > > > > https://github.com/apache/arrow/pull/9598 > > > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 4:50 PM Wes McKinney <wesmck...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > >> Read more (this is one ASF member's interpretation of the Openness > >> tenet of the Apache Way) about this: > >> > >> http://theapacheway.com/open/ > >> > >> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 3:46 PM Wes McKinney <wesmck...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > > >> > For trivial PRs that do not merit mention in the changelog you could > >> > preface the issue title with something like "ARROW-XXX" and we can > >> > modify the merge tool to bypass the consistency check for these. I > >> > think some other Apache projects do this. I can understand how it > >> > might seem like a nuisance to get a Jira when fixing a typo in a > >> > README, so this is easy to fix. > >> > > >> > For contributors doing non-trivial work, I think we want to try to get > >> > people in the habit of putting out there what they are working on. > >> > That's the thing that's most consistent with "The Apache Way" ― write > >> > things down, make plans in the open, allow others to see what is going > >> > on and not have the roadmap existing exclusively in people's minds. > >> > > >> > On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 3:41 PM Andrew Lamb <al...@influxdata.com> > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Thanks for the background Wes. This is exactly what I was looking > for. > >> > > > >> > > I think using JIRA for the single source of truth / project > management > >> has > >> > > lots of value and I don't want to propose changing that. I am > trying to > >> > > lower the barrier to contributing to Arrow even more. > >> > > > >> > > While I agree creating JIRA tickets is not hard, it is simply a few > >> more > >> > > steps for every PR and every contributor. The overhead is that much > >> more if > >> > > you don't already have a JIRA account -- if I can avoid just a few > more > >> > > steps and get a few more contributors I will consider it a win. > >> > > > >> > > Given this info, I will do some research into the technical options, > >> and > >> > > make a more concrete proposal / prototype for automation in a while. > >> > > > >> > > Thanks again, > >> > > Andrew > >> > > > >> > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 1:28 PM Wes McKinney <wesmck...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > hi Andrew, > >> > > > > >> > > > There isn't a hard requirement. It's a culture thing where the > >> purpose > >> > > > of Jira issues is to create a changelog and for developers to > >> > > > communicate publicly what work they are proposing to perform in > the > >> > > > project. We decided by consensus (essentially) that having a > single > >> > > > point of truth for developer activity in the project was a good > idea. > >> > > > > >> > > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 12:09 PM Andrew Lamb < > al...@influxdata.com> > >> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Can someone tell me / point me at what the actual "requirements" > >> for > >> > > > using > >> > > > > JIRA in Apache Arrow are? > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Specifically, I would like to know: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > 1. Where does the requirement for each commit to have a JIRA > >> ticket come > >> > > > > from? (Is that Apache Arrow specific, or is it a more general > >> Apache > >> > > > > governance requirement? Something else?) > >> > > > > > >> > > > > 2. Does each commit need to be associated with a specific JIRA > user > >> > > > > account, or is a github username sufficient? > >> > > > > >> > > > We would prefer that issues be assigned to a Jira user. If you > want > >> to > >> > > > create an issue on behalf of an uncooperative person and assign > it to > >> > > > yourself, you can do that, too. > >> > > > > >> > > > > Background: I am following up on an item raised at the Arrow > Sync > >> call > >> > > > > today and trying to determine how much of the current required > >> Arrow JIRA > >> > > > > process could be automated. Micah mentioned that the JIRA > >> specifics might > >> > > > > be related to ASF governance process or requirements, and I am > >> trying to > >> > > > > research what those are. > >> > > > > >> > > > We could easily automate the creation of a Jira issue using a bot > of > >> > > > some kind. I don't think that creating issue is a hardship, though > >> > > > (having created thousands of them myself over the last 5 years). > My > >> > > > position is that the hardship exists in the mind of the user and > >> isn't > >> > > > actually real. It would be better if contributors would indicate > the > >> > > > work they are proposing to contribute to the project before > opening a > >> > > > pull request (so that others know that someone is working on > >> > > > something), but I understand that not everyone is going to do > that. > >> > > > > >> > > > > I googled around but could not find anything at the Arrow or ASF > >> level > >> > > > > about *WHY* Arrow has the current JIRA process requirements > >> (though the > >> > > > > required process itself is well documented): > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Places I looked > >> > > > > * https://infra.apache.org/policies.html > >> > > > > * > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > https://arrow.apache.org/docs/developers/contributing.html#report-bugs-and-propose-features > >> > > > > * http://www.apache.org/licenses/contributor-agreements.html > >> > > > > * http://www.apache.org/licenses/cla-faq.html > >> > > > > * various google searches > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I apologize if I missed something obvious. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Any help would be most appreciated, > >> > > > > Andrew > >> > > > > >> >
