On Feb 5, 2010, at 3:21 PM, Tim Ruppert wrote:

> Just trying to not be personal - there is no attack in any message that's 
> been sent.  I was asked not to refer to people directly - so I have done 
> that.  I'll resend the message removing these words as well so that hopeful 
> we can stop talking about "feelings" and can get directly to talking about 
> the code that we all want to improve.  

I don't think it is necessary to resend it, the content of the message was 
clear enough regardless of the form you used.

Jacopo

> 
> Cheers,
> Ruppert
> 
> On Feb 5, 2010, at 7:05 AM, David E Jones wrote:
> 
>> 
>> If it has nothing to do with any person in particular, then there should be 
>> no need to refer to a person, not even in a way that attempts to disguise 
>> the fact that you are referring to a person like writing "Fellow Committer". 
>> When you use those words you ARE in fact talking about a person, and even if 
>> you don't say who it comes across as pretty clear that you are thinking of a 
>> particular person, so it just sounds weird and confusing in a sort of 
>> dehumanizing way.
>> 
>> Isn't it possible to talk about the functionality and approach without 
>> commenting on people? It's fine to say that Hans wrote this after so and so 
>> wrote that and talk about the this and that and discuss what might be a 
>> better approach, and I don't think it's necessary to comment on motives or 
>> character or experience, whether a person is named or not.
>> 
>> We're all people here, and I guess personally I'd rather be consider a 
>> person by my given name rather than a "Fellow Committer". If I wanted to be 
>> a number or a title, I'd be in a different line of work...
>> 
>> -David
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 5, 2010, at 7:12 AM, Tim Ruppert wrote:
>> 
>>> Fellow committer is in direct response to being clear that it doesn't 
>>> matter who I'm talking to - Hans, Adam, Scott, David, etc.  I'm not calling 
>>> out a person in particular - only calling out the committer who instead of 
>>> giving us an improved ebay component has decided to give everyone both a 
>>> new ebay component and the job of figuring out what is up with these two 
>>> strangely named, similarly scoped components.
>>> 
>>> My recommendation - even at this point - is that we start to have a 
>>> discussion about all of the things this new component does, and the people 
>>> who are using the old one can put all of their feature coverage on the 
>>> table - then we can discuss how to bring them together.  This may be one 
>>> ebay component which utilizes both XML for some things and the SDK for 
>>> others - but without knowing the feature coverage - we're screwed.
>>> 
>>> In this case - it matters very little to anyone what the technology choice 
>>> ends up being - it's all about:
>>> 
>>> 1. Making it easier for everyone who downloads OFBiz to know what to do 
>>> with eBay
>>> -- These multi channels sales are more and more important each day in this 
>>> economy.
>>> 2. Consolidating so that next time the SDK adds something that the XML does 
>>> not, we can make good decisions about how to achieve the new features.
>>> 
>>> Let's have this conversation - the committer of the new ebay component 
>>> should provide a quick outline of what is being supported by all the 
>>> functions that are newly implemented.  This should be easy since the 
>>> development was just done.  Then the people who developed and utilize the 
>>> current ebay component can put the features out on the table for comparison 
>>> as well.  Once we have that, we can easily do the necessary gap analysis 
>>> and discussion about what technologies support what, etc, etc.  
>>> 
>>> it could be that XML supports everything that we want and this new SDK 
>>> becomes something that the committer needs to remove and keep in his own 
>>> repository if there's no business reason to have it but we won't know that 
>>> until the gap in understanding is bridged.  I hope that clarifies the 
>>> stance and the use of the words "fellow committer" - not trying to be 
>>> condescending - just really trying to avoid the consistent "personal 
>>> attack" vibe around here since this has nothing to do with any person in 
>>> particular.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ruppert
>>> 
>>> On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:33 PM, Adam Heath wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Tim Ruppert wrote:
>>>>> How can introducing another EBay implementation because a fellow 
>>>>> committer is just too far down that road really ok for the rest of the 
>>>>> project?  Try explaining it to anyone trying to use the system why this 
>>>>> was done - unfortunately we can't (don't know the original gap or what 
>>>>> was solved by this new system) so we have basically forked the Ebay 
>>>>> component because someone didn't want to do the proper analysis about 
>>>>> even what they're getting with this new system.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's just unfortunate.  Fellow committer - again thanks for trying to 
>>>>> push things forward - you do that that after and we all appreciate it, 
>>>>> but if you weren't in such a hurry sometimes, we'd have more substantive 
>>>>> conversation that would lead to a better software product for you, your 
>>>>> customers and the rest of the community.  Instead, we've not only got a 
>>>>> new Ebay component, but everyone also gets additional analysis to on top 
>>>>> of trying to figure out Ebay.
>>>> 
>>>> Fellow committer seems a bit condescending to me.  Not trying to pick
>>>> a fight here(which others seem to think is all I enjoy doing), just
>>>> trying to help you word your responses better.  If I'm wrong, then go
>>>> ahead and ignore me.
>>> 
>> 
> 

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