On 16/10/15 16:32, hyazin...@emailn.de wrote: > I noticed and got interested in Freenet in 2006 by this paper, here from the > year 2002 > - http://www.lawtechjournal.com/articles/2002/05_021229_roemer.php - and made > an > effort in actually using it in 2014 as a reaction on the surveillance scandal > exposed by Edward Snowden. > > The good stuff: > > For 15 years Freenet is one of the best technical solutions to extreme worst > case internet scenarios > for whistleblowing & privacy advocates. And it still is. It's one of the most > promissing technical > solutions in that regard. If I had to set up a new internet user existence > with high demands on > freedom of press and privacy, I wouldn't think a second looking for other > ways than the freenet project. > > The Freenet has no bad record like for instance busted users for 15 years now > upto today. What > other tool can claim that for itself? > > I heard people here be in odds with the fact that freenet is the oldest > player in the field. > The opposite is the case: It's no weakness, it's a strengh, it's reliability > and consistency like a big, thick, old oak. > > The Freenet is prestigious. In public it forms a 3 note chord together with > TOR and I2P, and that > upto today: Just have a look at this recent article published by a news > website > with 17 million visitors per month > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/internet/more-indians-are-logging-on-anonymously-using-browsers-like-tor-freenet-i2p-and-tails/articleshow/49330271.cms > Not to forget the prize we've won this year: > https://freenetproject.org/news.html#20150211-suma-award > > The Freenet gets more and more important: > Just think of the surveillance scandal revealed by Edward Snowden in 2013, > think of more and more > countries introducing data retention, think of how threatened freedom of > press gets in more and more > countries, think of the centralization of the internet, shall I continue? > Each of those steps on the other side did, does and will push more people to > the freenet. Thanks! > > > The bad stuff: > > The Freenet can't afford to look like a window in the past > in any way. It simply sucks. It's no pull, but push (away) factor. > And the worst thing in this regard is the completely grey, > uncreative-depressing starting/main page of Freenet. > Second worst is the "internet like 1999" look of the websites linked by said > main page of Freenet. > This is really a point which urgently and step by step needs to be updated. > I'm glad that happens with > https://freenetproject.org/ very soon. It's absolutely necessary from user > perspective ! > Especially because of this: If Freenet always will be slower than the www, > then you definitely don't > want Freenet to also be uglier then the www. It's a disadvantage you simply > can't afford. > It should be the other way around: Your design loud and clear have to say > that the future of the internet is the Freenet. Modern websites are javascript layers over centralised databases.
We can't safely have Javascript in Freenet. Neither can Tor really, but it's more extreme for us. However, there is Winterface (for the generated content itself, not fproxy). > The chances: > > Collaborations. Try to get in Tails. Try to get in Debian. We need an unofficial Debian package/repository, yes. However we don't want to be in the mainline debian stable as it means no network level changes for 2 years. > Try to get in crowdfunded anti surveillance projects > like CommunityCube: > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/communitycubes/communitycube-lets-build-a-fair-internet/description > It will establish you further like abovementioned and will result in more new > users and developers. What's their business model? Social networks and open source projects are not allowed on Kickstarter, only profitable businesses. Selling boxes doesn't provide a good business reason to fund ongoing development. Look at your phone, it's probably beyond security support already, they want to sell you a new one... > Funding - pull every thinkable straw, and you have some left. When one has a > look at https://freenetproject.org/donate.html , one sees how > currently one can donate by... > - paypal (recurring payment), which is not used by people, who boycott paypal > for fighting wikileaks or simply don't trust online payment > - paypal (once) > - bitcoins > - ~ talking and figuring out together - great offer, but practically to > complicated. What ever solution could be figured out, write it directly > and so remove the need to start a conversation before paying > - merchandising > what is missing: > - direct bank account based on SEPA - think of your peer group, privacy > sensitive folks care about this method a lot, as online banking > in times of NSA is evil. We need more funding yes. I'm not sure whether more donation options would help or hinder. More ways to pay seems more complicated. Any thoughts? > - you really need to make a strong effort in making a crowdfunding campaign > on any crowdfunding platform, preferably big and popular > crowdfunding platforms like patreon or kickstarter, just like MediaGoblin has > done so: http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html Again, Kickstarter is strictly for profit-making businesses. And you need a pitch (expensive, lots of work, needs the kind of skills that are not common around here). I believe others have looked into Patreon? It's worth looking at those sites that allow open source projects (and social networks, arguably many of Freenet's features are social network-like). > -- I mean, you have it all: > --- You have the crowd motivation (surveillance scandal, data retention, > facebook, etc.) > --- You have the offer: The practical useful tool, Freenet - with all of said > record > ---- Now, all it takes is a serious effort in making a crowdfunding campaign, > including a nice video, promoting at news papers & PR people, > well-thought crowdfunding aims, and all that placed in bottom drawer waitind > to be taken out when the moment is very good for it, like > for instance when data retention is being introduced in another big country, > etc. > Additionally, the time counter doesn't seem to me that effective as the money > counter, so better switch back to the money counter. Yes, we need to try to raise funds either from individuals or from funding applications. We suck at both but practice makes perfect. > Show people how to use the Freenet. You know why most people don't change > their behaviour? > Not because of lack of motivation, but because they don't know how. Because their goals are contradictory. They want a warm fuzzy feeling that they're not being spied on - while reading their Facebook feed with all their real life stuff on. They want everything for free (and that includes bandwidth and power), while not being advertised at. They want instant gratification, and no spam, and lots of things that are hard to implement without both centralisation and money. And so on. And as Florent pointed out, the thing they don't want to do is publish a static website. Which is one of the few things Freenet is reasonably good at, modulo the fact that nobody can see it! :| > You really need to take people - not only regarding user, but also developers > - > by the hand and show them as easy and entertaining as possible how everything > is done. The best would be a couple of 3 minute youtube videos, spoken > in with a decent micro, maybe a little bit subtle background music. By the > way, you could beautifully set up an own youtube channel and let it link to > your > funding page and merchandise page. An anecdote: I planned to "really & > seriously" use Freenet after I've read all the FAQ, Wiki, documentation, but > guess what? > I never made that effort, just because the sheer mass of text demotivated me > in doing so. ME, the one writing here. Imagine what it does to the one's, > who are not as engaged as I am. There are a few videos in other languages.... The point here is *everything* is going to have to be done by volunteers, because there is basically no money left. > Second important: Provide cryptoparty structures with material, so that on > cryptoparties people not only learn how to use TOR and PGP, but > also Freenet. That's a good one. Feel free to implement some of your suggestions. :) > Be more present at events like CCCamp, Chaos Comunication Congress, and so on. Some devs are occasionally... It's not clear whether FPI will be able to pay travel expenses in future... > You don't even necessarily need to show huge improvements since last talks, > because a lot of people don't know Freenet and > constructing the connection between the surveillance scandal, how it's > threatening freedom of press and privacy, and the Freenet, > and how to use it (!) - see last point - is totally enough. If we want to give a talk we'll need something to show for it, no? > Consider in freenet development that the future of the internet gets more > into streaming, interaction, videos, audio (so, the whole HTML5 bubble). > Freenet shouldn't drop behind this. There has been some progress on this, but you have to bear in mind Freenet's performance and architectural limitations. It's not going to be as easy and fast as Youtube any time soon, because search is hard, and even if we reorganise how video is stored (at the risk of having lots of content where only the first few minutes is available and the rest has fallen out), it will still take some time to fetch. Basically, "web 2.0" = advertising + privacy violation + javascript + databases + user-generated "content" (mostly chatter). Almost none of that works on Freenet. There's no way to make money out of advertising, and therefore your site is volunteer maintained, and therefore not as good as anything on the open web. There's no way to do javascript (for intractable security reasons) or server-side databases (possible maybe but too slow). Even chat/forums are slow, more like USENET than Twitter; Sone is somewhere between Facebook and Twitter, but it's still limited by Freenet's performance, and has scaling issues if more people used it. And so on. Ironically both Freenet and the web as a whole are based on theft and deception. In Freenet, it's content stolen from the web (or worse). On the web, it's "user generated content", which is turned into advertising revenue by knowing everything about the user.
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