Same as Denis. +1 for E (Caty's proposal). I don't like the rest.
Thanks, Marius On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Denis Gervalle <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi devs, > > Here is my views on the current proposals: > > Proposal A : Tiny "Home menu". > > > -0, terms and menu options are not as appropriate as E, the duplication at > main level is confusing. > > Proposal B : XWiki right side menu > > > -1, please do not mix users and content. From end user POV, I am not sure > XWiki, System or whatever could have any sense. > > Proposal C : Wiki crowded menu > > > 0, could be a light way to do it, but prevent direct access to user > administration, this is looks like a farm version. > > Proposal D : Add a menu on the top-left logo. > > > -1, the logo could be customized or even removed, keeping the menu is > usually easy, but keeping the logo and these functions could quickly became > a nightmare on a customized site. Moreover, it also prevent direct user > administration. > > Proposal E : The complete "Home menu" proposed by Caty. > > > +1, this is my favorite right now, especially looking at the upcoming skin > when the "Add" menu will be moved out of the top bar. > > I do not understand why we would like to hide the fact that the main wiki > is "on top" of others wikis. This is currently true technically speaking, > but it also make sense from a user and content POV. When used in the > workspace configuration, the main wiki will hold the users but also the > main home and welcome pages, the navigation between workspaces, the global > activity stream, ... it is the entry point, the portal for all the > subwikis. The only case where the main wiki get almost useless is in the > farm configuration, but this is not our subject here. > > Therefore, I see proposal E as the one that represent real hierarchy > properly for the end user. > > > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi. >> >> Seems RC1 is soon, I encourage everybody to give his point of view in order >> to make a choice. >> >> Thanks, >> Guillaume >> >> >> 2013/9/12 Jeremie BOUSQUET <[email protected]> >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > >> > 2013/9/12 Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <[email protected]> >> > >> > > Indeed, the proposal A was based on >> > > >> > >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/PortalMenuinstead >> > > of http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu . >> > > >> > > Then I suggest to call your proposal: E. >> > > >> > > Let me recap: >> > > >> > > - Proposal A : Tiny "Home menu". >> > > >> > > - Proposal B : XWiki right side menu >> > > >> > > - Proposal C : Wiki crowded menu >> > > >> > > - Proposal D : Add a menu on the top-left logo. >> > > >> > > - Proposal E : The complete "Home menu" proposed by Caty. >> > > >> > > -- >> > > >> > > About E: >> > > Some issues IMHO: >> > > - The amount of menus is not the same when you are in the home wiki and >> > > when you are in the subwiki. >> > > - Do we really need to have a direct access to the documents, the users >> > and >> > > the applications of the home wiki when you are in the subwiki? Can't it >> > be >> > > confusing? >> > > >> > >> > I would say: it depends. >> > In "farm" concept it's almost completely useless, because different >> persons >> > will administrate different subwikis of their own and someone else will >> > administrate main wiki. >> > In "workspace" concept, I find very useful to be able to administrate >> main >> > wiki without having to browse to main wiki, because I may find myself >> > wanting to administer main wiki just anytime, while I administer a >> subwiki >> > merely to manage users allowed in this subwiki ... and, yes, install >> > extensions and choose a color theme. >> > >> > To be honest, I use 5.1 + Workspace extension, and I hardly have any >> issue >> > with navigating through wikis, administering this or that etc ... The >> only >> > thing I would miss, are some quick links to switch to a wiki or the other >> > (instead of having to browse to a "Workspace directory" page), but this >> > kind of thing does not really scale with numerous wikis. >> > >> > I like Vincent's idea to tweak the home logo, as I never quite liked the >> > idea of a "Home" menu - home in websites is typically the homepage, and >> > nothing else. >> > >> > >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > 2013/9/12 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]> >> > > >> > > > On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > You forgot one proposal which I like: >> > > > > >> > > > > == Proposal D == >> > > > > >> > > > > * Generalize the XWiki home (the logo at the top left) >> > > > > * When you click on the logo you get to the home of the current >> wiki >> > > > > * The proposal is about generalizing that feature to allow >> navigating >> > > > > either to the wiki home, to the main wiki or to the list of other >> > wikis >> > > > > * It could be done by showing a menu arrow when the mouse hover >> over >> > > the >> > > > > logo and when the mouse moves over the arrow, show a menu with >> first >> > > > entry >> > > > > = "Main Wiki" (or "Home Wiki" if you prefer) and a second entry >> with >> > > > "Wiki >> > > > > Index" for example. >> > > > > >> > > > > What I like with this is that the user is already used to use the >> > logo >> > > as >> > > > > a way to navigate to the home of wiki. >> > > > > >> > > > > Thanks >> > > > > -Vincent >> > > > > >> > > > > On Sep 12, 2013, at 12:31 PM, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau < >> > > > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > Hi developers. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Tuesday evening, after trying to fix all issues that integrate >> > > > Workspace >> > > > > in >> > > > > > XE made, I had a bit of time to work on this JIRA: >> > > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9341 "Menu improvements when >> > > > > Workspaces >> > > > > > activated". >> > > > > > >> > > > > > The idea was to quickly implement the Caty's proposal for M2 >> (which >> > > was >> > > > > > scheduled for the day after). I made it and I sent a pull >> request. >> > I >> > > > have >> > > > > > also sent a mail to Vincent to show him my work. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > == Proposal A == >> > > > > > There is some screenshots (Proposal A): >> > > > > > Logged as admin: >> > > > > > >> > > http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu.png >> > > > > > Not logged as admin: >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu-non-admin.png >> > > > > > >> > > > > > You can get it from this commit: >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> https://github.com/xwiki/xwiki-platform/commit/8c1c1bac2cde30f9024525e50249382e3d2c4138 >> > > > > > (except that I have changed the wiki icon for this screenshot) >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > So I just want to link again the 'Home Menu' full proposal >> > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu >> > > > >> > > > In your screenshot is: >> > > > * Home >> > > > ** Administer Main Wiki >> > > > ** Wiki Directory >> > > > >> > > > What it was proposed: >> > > > * Home >> > > > ** Administration >> > > > ** Wikis Index >> > > > ** .... >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeMenuSubWiki.png >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeMenuMain.png >> > > > >> > > > "Administer Main Wiki" was proposed as: >> > > > - "Administration" >> > > > or >> > > > - "Administer Home" / "Administrate Home" >> > > > depending if you were located in Home or in the (sub)wiki. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > We though this menu was confusing and not consistent with the >> > current >> > > > > menus: >> > > > > > - Why do we have a link to the *main wiki* administration when we >> > are >> > > > in >> > > > > a >> > > > > > (sub)wiki? Does it make sense? >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > As an administrator I think it has sense to be able to administrate >> > both >> > > > the current (sub)wiki you are visiting and also the home (mainwiki). >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > - Why do we have the main wiki (called Home) in the left of the >> > > current >> > > > > > wiki, space and page? The fact that there is actually a "main" >> and >> > > > > several >> > > > > > "sub" wikis is only due to the implementation. We could imagine, >> in >> > > the >> > > > > > future, a new implementation where there is no distinction >> between >> > > > "main" >> > > > > > and "sub", but where we have an independent "system" that allows >> > the >> > > > > users >> > > > > > to create and manage their wikis. Then, it seems better to call >> the >> > > > menu >> > > > > > "System" or "XWiki". >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > The "main" and "sub" is transformed in "home" and "wiki". The menu >> > > displays >> > > > the hierarchy: Home > Wiki > Space > Page and is also consistent with >> > the >> > > > way our cascading works for our preferences (rights, etc.) >> > > > >> > > > > - When we don't have the admin right on the main wiki, we only >> have a >> > > > > > single item in this menu, meanwhile wiki, space and page has more >> > > > > content. >> > > > > > It does not look good. >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > In the proposal there is >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeMenuSubWiki.png >> > > > Although this is not currently implemented, the idea is that we could >> > > also >> > > > list for example the "Users Index" a.k.a the "User Directory" >> > (especially >> > > > since workspaces have only global users and the directory is located >> in >> > > the >> > > > main wiki). In the proposal I've used " *** Index" in order to have a >> > > > consistency between the index/directory applications naming. >> > > > >> > > > So the idea is that even if now there is only one entry in the >> submenu, >> > > we >> > > > could have more entries (if they are related to the Home (mainwiki)). >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > - If you are in the main wiki, you have "Administer main wiki" >> > twice: >> > > > > once >> > > > > > in the Home menu, once in the Wiki menu. >> > > > > > - The left menu has too many items. >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > If you are on the main wiki, the menu changes from >> > > > * Menu in the (sub)wiki >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeMenuSubWiki.png >> > > > in >> > > > * Menu in the Home (mainwiki) >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/HomeMenu/HomeMenuMain.png >> > > > >> > > > The left menu contains items related to 'spatial organization of >> > content' >> > > > inside XWiki (wikis, spaces, pages) >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > == Proposal B == >> > > > > > Vincent thought it was not good enough to be integrated in 5.2M2, >> > so >> > > we >> > > > > > started to iterate until having this proposal: >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-xwiki-menu.png(proposal >> > > > > > B). >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Why putting this menu to the right side? It's because, on the >> left >> > > > side, >> > > > > we >> > > > > > have Wiki/Space/Page, where you have actions that you can >> actually >> > > > > achieve >> > > > > > on these Wiki, Space and Page. Actions like "Administer", >> "Delete" >> > or >> > > > > > "Rename". The XWiki menu does not provide actions like that, it >> > just >> > > > > > provides some shortcuts to navigate thought the wikis. It's more >> a >> > > > > "System" >> > > > > > menu, like the Profile menu, or the Register action. That's why >> we >> > > put >> > > > it >> > > > > > there. Moreover, it make the left menu smaller, which is less >> > > > confusing. >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > I don't like this proposal because is breaking the content >> organization >> > > > hierarchy: home > wiki > space > page. >> > > > You can consider our current menu to be composed of "Content || >> User". >> > > The >> > > > "Content" part allows you to create new content and to see your >> > location >> > > in >> > > > the content hierarchy. The right menu is dedicated to User related >> > > actions. >> > > > >> > > > Also I don't like that it uses the name XWiki. Users want to >> customize >> > > > their instance and not even show it's running on XWiki, making it >> their >> > > > own. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > == Proposal C == >> > > > > > We had also this idea: >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/wiki-menu.png(proposalC) >> > > > > > But we didn't like it, because the "Wiki Directory" and the "Main >> > > Wiki" >> > > > > > link are not related to the current wiki, meanwhile actions like >> > > > > > "Administer", "Index" or "Delete" are. >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > Crowded and serves as a double function. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > --- >> > > > > > After having created the proposal B, I asked Vincent: "What >> should >> > I >> > > > do? >> > > > > Do >> > > > > > I commit it, without asking to the community?". He said yes, >> > because >> > > he >> > > > > > wanted to have something to show to the community that can still >> be >> > > > > changed >> > > > > > for the RC1, and he applied the pull request. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > So, let me list again the 3 proposals we have: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > A - "Home" menu (Caty's proposal): >> > > > > > Current implementation: >> > > > > > >> > > http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-home-menu.png >> > > > > > Mockup with the new skin: >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/PortalMenu/MenuPortal.png >> > > > > > >> > > > > > B - "XWiki" right menu: >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/new-xwiki-menu.png >> > > > > > >> > > > > > C - Add actions to the "Wiki" menu: >> > > > > > >> http://xwiki.kephpage.net/proposals/workspaces-menus/wiki-menu.png >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I propose to start a thread where you can all give your opinion, >> > > > > regarding >> > > > > > one of these proposals, and you can also bring new ideas. We must >> > > have >> > > > a >> > > > > > consensus for the RC1! >> > > > > > >> > > > > > 0 for proposal A (the left menu is too heavy). >> > > > > > +0 for proposal B (not perfect IMHO). >> > > > > > -1 for proposal C. >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > So, my vote goes to Ver. A, but the way it was proposed: >> > > > http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/HomeMenu >> > > > >> > > > (Wiki / (sub)wiki) >> > > > * Home >> > > > ** Administration >> > > > ** --- >> > > > ** Wikis Index/Directory >> > > > ** Documents Index >> > > > >> > > > (Home/mainwiki) >> > > > * Home >> > > > ** Watch Home >> > > > ** Administer Home >> > > > ** --- >> > > > ** Wikis Index >> > > > ** Documents Index >> > > > >> > > > Thanks, >> > > > Caty >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > Louis-Marie >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > > devs mailing list >> > > > > > [email protected] >> > > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > > devs mailing list >> > > > > [email protected] >> > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > devs mailing list >> > > > [email protected] >> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > devs mailing list >> > > [email protected] >> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > devs mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> devs mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs >> > > > > -- > Denis Gervalle > SOFTEC sa - CEO > eGuilde sarl - CTO > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
