How does 9-10pm Thurs in Hoover (after GlusterFS BoF) sit with everyone? ________________________________________ From: Ski Kacoroski [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 4:27 PM To: Will Dennis Cc: Matt Simmons ([email protected]) Subject: Re: [lopsa-discuss] Dan Geer on the state of Professionalization in Cybersecurity
I think thursday at 8-9 or 9 - 10 would be great. cheers, ski On 10/25/2013 01:25 PM, Will Dennis wrote: > OK, then the rest of Weds eve after LOPSA Ann'l Town Hall is basically out > due to the lure of LOPSA After Dark, correct? (and I'm guessing the folks who > attend the LOPSA Mentorship BoF 8:30-9:30pm after the Town Hall would beeline > for the LAD bar immediately thereafter...) > > So, that leaves 10-11pm on Tues, or 8-9pm / 9-10pm / 10-11pm on Thurs. I have > the fam staying in my room Tues night, so have a big preference against that > night (they leave Weds AM, so that's not an issue the rest of the conf.) How > do folks feel about Thurs night then? (See > https://www.usenix.org/conference/lisa13/birds-feather-sessions for the > current lineup for Thurs night.) > > We could also get together at any time in the hallway track, or shout over > the din at LOPSA After Dark (def. not my preference...) > > I'm a first-timer, so more experienced hands please chime in... > > Thanks, > Will > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ski Kacoroski [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 12:32 PM > To: Will Dennis; LOPSA Discuss List > Subject: Re: [lopsa-discuss] Dan Geer on the state of Professionalization in > Cybersecurity > > Will, > > I agree with John, if you could pick a different time I think it would be a > bit better. Please do list your affliation as LOPSA as this is something I, > and I think many members of LOPSA are interested in. > > cheers, > > ski > > On 10/25/2013 06:54 AM, Will Dennis wrote: >> >> (CC'ing Matt since he's currently on vacation, and want him to see >> this...) >> >> OK, how about the 9:30-10:30pm slot on Wed 11/6, immediately following >> the LOPSA Mentorship BoF? If this doesn't work, pls suggest an >> alternate slot... >> >> Also, for the organizer, I can do it, but can I list my affiliation as >> "LOPSA" since I can't really speak for the organization (just a >> member, not a Board member...) >> >> >> Thanks, Will >> >> ________________________________________ From: Joseph Kern >> [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 2:15 AM To: >> Will Dennis Cc: Pamela Lynn Howell; [email protected] Subject: >> Re: [lopsa-discuss] Dan Geer on the state of Professionalization in >> Cybersecurity >> >> Looks like we found our organizers! A discussion on what >> professionalization (the act of a person becoming professional) will >> look like for sysadmin? >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 3:37 AM, Will Dennis >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: OK by me - >> hope we can get Matt to attend as well as everyone else who's >> interested... >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Lynn Howell >> [[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] Sent: >> Thursday, October 24, 2013 06:17 PM Eastern Standard Time To: Will >> Dennis Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [lopsa-discuss] Dan Geer on the state of >> Professionalization in Cybersecurity >> >> >> Will! >> >> Let's wrangle a BoF on the topic at LISA! Sounds a lot like a previous >> thread started by Matt a few months ago, too. >> >> I want to work on putting this together, seriously. >> >> ---pam >> >> On Oct 24, 2013 12:44 PM, "Will Dennis" >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hmmm. the >> URL http://www.sysadmin.com.au/sa-bok.html does not seem to respond >> (interestingly, it does ping, but the rDNS is >> "mail.sysadmin.com.au<http://mail.sysadmin.com.au>".) Anybody with an >> alternate link out there? >> >> Love! This! Discussion! Agree with the NIST definition, and would LOVE >> to see LOPSA (and/or LISA) pursue this. >> >> Looking fwd to meeting everyone who is going to LISA this year, >> hopefully the conversation can continue there f2f. >> >> - Will >> >> >> From: >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] >>> >> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected] >> opsa.org>] On Behalf Of Hal Miller Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 >> 12:25 PM To: >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Cc: Lopsa Discussion Subject: Re: >> [lopsa-discuss] Dan Geer on the state of Professionalization in >> Cybersecurity >> >> Geoff Halprin put together a good body of knowledge some years ago. >> Don't know whether he's kept it up. Check out >> sysadmin.com.au<http://sysadmin.com.au> and look for sa-bok (sysadmin >> body of knowledge). At the lesst, it was an excellent starting point >> for someone wanting to look into this now. >> >> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Ski Kacoroski >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I like this >> NIST paper definitions: >> >> http://csrc.nist.gov/nice/documents/a_historical_view_of_how_occupatio >> ns_become_professions_100312_draft_nice_branded.pdf >> >> 'For the purposes of this paper, the operational definition of >> profession is "a profession is defined by: (1) a body of knowledge, >> (2) ethical guidelines, and (3) a professional organization with a >> growing set of published papers and best practices" (Cox, 2010, p. >> 7).' >> >> Using this definition, we have #2 and part of #3 (e.g. LOPSA and the >> USENIX short books and some vendor best practice documents). We are >> still missing an up-to-date body of knowledge that people can refer to >> and easily find. >> >> cheers, >> >> ski >> >> On 10/24/2013 09:09 AM, Joseph Kern wrote: From the paper[1]: >> >> "A useful, more comprehensive definition can be derived from >> suggestions by several speakers at the workshop convened by this >> committee. >> >> That definition identifies the following characteristics of a >> professional: >> >> (1) passing a knowledge and/or performance test, (2) superior >> completion of study of intellectual basis of the profession, (3) a >> sustained period of mentored experience/apprenticeship, (4) continuing >> education, (5) licensing by a formal authority, and (6) ethical >> standards of behavior with enforcement, including removal from the >> profession. >> >> A field that possesses all of these characteristics will almost >> certainly be recognized as a profession, but not all are required for >> a field to be recognized as a profession." >> >> >> Sysadmin meet the criteria of items 3 and 4, but those seem to be the >> least important of the 6 items, as many trades share the exact same >> criteria. >> >> [1]: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18446&page=14 >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Carolyn Rowland >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: >> >> Mark, >> >> What is your definition of profession? >> >> Carolyn >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 10:23 AM, M^2 >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: >> >> It took me a long time to figure out that the referenced study/paper >> is not using the word profession in the way I would. They explicitly >> refer to a profession as meaning it has fixed certifying bodies like >> the AMA that serve as a guarantor of a certain body of knowledge, or >> some other explicit training/qualification, like a certified engineer. >> >> Given my widely aired views on the value of certification in general, >> my initial revulsion to the statement is softened. I believe that the >> paper in question is playing redefinition games, but keeping their >> redefinition in mind, it reduces my concern. >> >> It's a long essay that goes into many different areas. I won't >> comment on most of it for now at least, but it was an interesting >> read, even those parts I disagreed with. >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Joseph Kern >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> >> wrote: >> >> /"As you know, I work the cybersecurity trade, and I am gratified that >> ten days ago the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, on behalf of the >> Department of Homeland Security, *concluded that cybersecurity should >> be seen as an occupation and not a profession because the rate of >> change is too great to consider professionalization.*"/ >> >> >> Dan Geer just gave an amazing keynote (that I am currently writing up >> a review for on my blog) and this quote stuck out at me as an >> interesting topic of discussion for LOPSA. >> >> Here is the text of the keynote: >> http://geer.tinho.net/geer.uncc.9x13.txt Here is the study cited: >> http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18446&page=R1 >> >> I don't think I've ever heard "rate of change" as being included in a >> definition of a Professional before. Does this argument carry any >> weight? I imagine Doctors and Lawyers experience a "rate of change" >> that is far lower than that of a Systems Administrator or a Security >> "Professional". >> >> -- Joseph A Kern >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list >> provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >> http://lopsa.org/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list >> provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >> http://lopsa.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> -- Joseph A Kern >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list >> provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >> http://lopsa.org/ >> >> -- "When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it connected >> to the entire universe" John Muir >> >> Chris "Ski" Kacoroski, Director of LOPSA, >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>, 206-501-9803<tel:206-501-9803> or >> ski98033 on most IM services >> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list >> provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >> http://lopsa.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list >> provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >> http://lopsa.org/ >> >> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list >> provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >> http://lopsa.org/ >> >> >> >> >> -- Joseph A Kern >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list >> provided by the League of Professional System Administrators >> http://lopsa.org/ >> > > -- > "When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it > connected to the entire universe" John Muir > > Chris "Ski" Kacoroski, Director of LOPSA, [email protected], > 206-501-9803 or ski98033 on most IM services > -- "When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it connected to the entire universe" John Muir Chris "Ski" Kacoroski, Director of LOPSA, [email protected], 206-501-9803 or ski98033 on most IM services _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
