On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:55:14 -0500 Youness Alaoui <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> said:
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Carsten Haitzler > <ras...@rasterman.com>wrote: > > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:47:32 -0500 Youness Alaoui > > <kakar...@kakaroto.homelinux.net> said: > > > > > Reminds me of some of the stuff I've been saying... > > > As for "don't have time to do tarballs everyday".. well, that's why > > there's > > > something called "scripts" and "cron jobs".. those things exist, might be > > > good to use these awesome technologies. > > > > hooray for your snide comments. wonderful attitude. you were not there on > > irc, > > nor did you even seem to have read the material at hand (the patches). > > seriously, what's up with you? > > > It wasn't my remarks, it was the remarks from someone who wants to "reminds me..." wasn't? > contribute to the project and who got offended by the way you talked to > him. All I did was point out what I said before in the hopes that you'll > realize that your own attitude is a problem. maybe you should read this: http://www.enlightenment.org/~raster/e.fr.txt whatever. i was asked to review - i was talking to vtorri about the patches and going "eh? wtf? why did they change api? that's really bad! why do all this work to disable chained_mempool?..." armani turned up and got offended at me having ... oh dear.. a negative opinion of the patches... gasp. shock. horror. how dare someone think negatively of them~ yes. everyone is a hero and everyone is #1. no one can ever do anything bad/wrong. we must praise everyone at all times. if you actually READ the exchange my comments boiled down to: * evaluating patches with some level of bewilderment at many of them. * expressing exasperation that these patches were being used for openbsd builds and breaking api without talking to us - wishing they'd come and discuss. remember this is the FIRST i saw of these patches when vincent pointed me to them to have a look/review. * saying that tarballs and svn checkouts are the same and you have to invest time to make tarballs, test, make announcements etc. to raise the quality and that isn't appreciably better than an svn checkout. * saying that i was still at work, busy and i have no time and then being given the "well i'm a cto and you have a haughty tone" lines. if anything i should be offended at someone pretty much not caring that i'm busy and pulling the "well i'm busy too" line implying that it's irrelevant and i should just do as requested. of course without any knowledge of the conversation you are instantly deciding i'm going off and saying things i didn't. i didn't say anything like "you are a bunch of useless people" or "you'll never get those patches right - give up". i gave a frank and direct evaluation without sugarcoating. people who cannot handle that are going to have trouble in every FOSS project out there. the patch evaluations from them are pretty much the same as what i did. > > do i suddenly have to be mr. nice to everything? "oh wow! how wonderful! so > > awesome that you broke evas's api on your openbsd packages. so great to > > see. > > we'll love hearing the app developers ask us for help about their apps not > > working on openbsd, when we will have zero clue that it was an api/abi > > breakage > > added specifically on openbsd. that's just awesome. please - make more > > patches > > just like that!". > > > > if its bad, it's bad. reasons were explicitly given for it being bad. > > > > This has nothing to do with the patches, I didn't know there were patches, > I didn't see any patches, and I don't care about them either. My point is > you should learn how to talk to people if you don't want to drive away all > the contributors and end up alone in the project. you need to learn to actually understand the topic before spouting your opinions. you were not there for the conversation. for your reference i linked to it above. you didn't see the patches being reviewed so again - how can you comment? how can you know that the review was justified based on the content? > > and as for "well just use scripts" - have to write and test those too. and > > if > > its just a cron job... then its NO BETTER THAN A RANDOM SVN CHECKOUT. that > > was > > my point... which you failed to read. if you don't sit down and spend at > > least > > some qa time on the tarballs... then its pointless. this is my point on a > > mental block. i keep hearing it from people "omg !!!! svn trunk must be so > > unstable!!! how can i use it?" - it's the image that just because its in > > trunk > > (or head/master/whatever) that it must be so unstable and a tarball made > > every > > day is going to be better. it's a RELEASE process of freezing and fixing > > just > > bugs that improves quality... not "make dist; scp *.tar.gz ...". > > > > For you it's no better than a random svn checkout, good, but if they want a > tarball, give them a tarball, as for "what if it doesn't build", well it > should always build, noone should even commit anything without testing his > work and making sure it doesn't break anything.. while breakage does > happen, it's not something that happens 10 times a day, and it's still > fine, if a tarball is fucked, then you can always say "use the one from > tomorrow". > There is a difference between having a build system do a wget and a build > system do a svn checkout, maybe that's why they need tarballs, so they > prepare their build system and when the release is out, they just change > the URL instead of changing the whole system of downloading the image... > And it's not about "svn is unstable" mentality, it's about "tarballs are > more convenient". > As for the scripts, no you don't have to write and test those, you can say > "ok fine, someone write it and we'll put it on the server as a cron job", > if noone does write the script for you, then too bad for them, it's not > your responsability. If you wanted, I would have made the script myself.. > we already have a script that creates a svn tarball everyday for aMSN, you > could reuse the same script basically, and I could adapt it to the EFL. > It's the same as svn? yeah, so what? it's better to help them by giving out > the tarball even if it's the same as svn rather than telling them to fuck > off. i want people to get out of this mindset that it has to be a tarball to be stable. any tarball will do. as long as that mindset persists then it wastes bandwidth, wastes time, reduces flexibility. they are obviously managing right now to use svn, so this means both sides have to go make changes.. for zero gain. > > > > > if they require tarballs to > > > > >> test and can't just run svn instead to fetch the source... i don't > > have > > > > the > > > > >> time each day to make tarballs when they can just as easily fetch > > from > > > > svn. > > > > >> it's the same work on their part. making tarballs is MORE work on > > our > > > > part. > > > > > > > > > > You missed the point, we want to be sure that the final archive will > > be > > > > ok. > > > > > I'm not asking for snapshot on a daily basis, only some rc before the > > > > > final archive. > > > > > (Wait no project did alpha & rc, right ?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >>> Note that i discuss also with a Mageia e17 maintainer, and he told > > me > > > > that > > > > >>> such snapshots will help him too. > > > > >> > > > > >> a snapshot has no more quality than an svn checkout, so other than a > > > > mental > > > > >> block thinking svn == totally unstable/unusable and an > > unwillingness to > > > > use it > > > > >> because of a mental block, i don't see the point. > > > > > > > > > > yeah a mental block, I think you don't want to know how many time I > > > > > have to reroll a dist to get all working and how frustating it is. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> a release that has had quality assurance done on it is a different > > > > matter - but > > > > >> we arent doing them every day. hell no - not with al the efl trees > > we > > > > have. > > > > >> only chance of that is if we stopped having separate libs and just > > > > merged them > > > > >> into a single efl tree. > > > > >> > > > > >>> Vincent > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >>> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > >>> Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > >>> Register now > > > > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > -------------- > > > > >> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > >> RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > >> Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > >> Register now > > > > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > > Register now > > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Bruno Dilly > > > > Senior Developer > > > > ProFUSION embedded systems > > > > http://profusion.mobi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > > Register now > > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > > Register now > > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > -- > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > > Save $700 by Nov 18 > > Register now > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > > _______________________________________________ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > RSA(R) Conference 2012 > Save $700 by Nov 18 > Register now > http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
