Well, I am no physicist Jerry but it seems that they would attract on another
if there was a magnetic field inside. Here is an except from a physics
professor.
A good electrolyte has several interesting properties; for one thingit has lots
of ion-pairs in it. When we put an ion-pair in anelectrical field, such as in
the Ni-Fe gap, the positive ion willtend to driftone way and the negative ion
will tend to drift the other way. This processwill continue until the
electrochemical field in the interiorof the gap becomes a constant, independent
of position, whichis the equilibrium condition. There could be some
electricalpotential gradient; I don’t think there is much but therecould be
some. And there could be some concentration gradient;again I don’t think there
is much, but there could be some. Inany case, when you consider the
concentration gradient andthe electrical gradient together, in equilibrium
there is nonet motion of ions. In the simplest case, there is no
electricalfield (hence no drift) and no concentration gradient (hence no
netdiffusion). In the more general case, drift due to theelectrical potential
gradient is counterbalanced by diffusion along theconcentration gradient. The
two gradients point in oppositedirection, and when we add the two effects
(electrical andconcentration) we find that the electrochemical potentialhas
zero gradient.All that applies to the interior of the gaps, in the
bulkelectrolyte. At the ends of each gap, there will, in general, be
someaccumulation of ions. This produces a complicated dipole layer (akabilayer)
there. The strength of the dipole layer depends on theproperties of the
electrolyte, as well as on the properties of theadjacent metal, as discussed in
section 2.4. The strength ofthe dipole layer determines how the potential in
the interior of thegap is related to the potential in the interior of the
adjacent metal.For more about the importance of dipole layers, see reference 3.
http://www.av8n.com/physics/battery.htm
From: jerry freedomev <freedo...@yahoo.com>
To: Paul Dove <dov...@bellsouth.net>; Lee Hart <leeah...@earthlink.net>;
Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org>; Electric Vehicle
Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Zero self-discharge"
Hi Paul and All,
From: Paul Dove via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: Lee Hart <leeah...@earthlink.net>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 8:04 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Zero self-discharge"
There is not an electric field inside a battery.
-------Really? There certainly is potential voltage fields and nothing is
perfect, just good enough not to have bad things happen.
The electrolyte cause the field to be in equilibrium otherwise it would
immediately discharge.
---------- I've never seen such a perfect fluid that will only pas energy 1
way. Entropy will always happen. Though I agree little does in good quality
lithium batteries. But saying electrolyte is a perfect insulator in just 1
direction strains physics too far.
The field is present when the terminals are connected and that is why you get
ion movement.
--------- Well that is the plan but reality bites as again potential, entropy
happens. Though in my own Volt modules I'll just limit charge,
discharge and monitor with BattBridges, LightObject 404 Wthr meter as discharge
is too low to matter in high quality cells.
Jerry Dycus
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 22, 2015, at 10:33 PM, Lee Hart via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
> Michael Ross via EV wrote:
>> I am comparing to the lead acid chemistry where the charged state has a
>> competing lower thermodynamic state, so a charge lead acid cell always runs
>> down even in the absence of any short circuit or load. One of the neat
>> things about Li ion cells that this condition does not exist. This is the
>> self discharge that I am talking about.
>>
>> Well, Dahn says very clearly in his lecture "there is no redox shuttle"
>> back to the positive electrode.
>
> Lack of any redox reactions doesn't mean there aren't any other sources of
> leakage and self-discharge. For example, capacitors have no redox shuttle,
> either... and yet they self-discharge.
>
> When you have a voltage difference, you also have an electric field. The
> strength of this field is usually measured in volts per meter. When the
> oppositely charged particles are very close together (micrometers), even a
> small voltage difference (like 3v) creates an enormous electric field
> strength (3 million volts per meter). Such a field strength can easily propel
> electrons from one side to the other; i.e. discharge the battery.
>
> --
> The greatest pleasure in life is to create something that wasn't
> there before. -- Roy Spence
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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