On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:41:59 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote: > > Sorry Craig but http://s33light.org/SEEES did not make any sense as to > how sense underlies consciousness and comp. In fact you seem to > contradict that claim: I.G., "These experiential phenomena > (telesemantics, sense, perception, awareness, consciousness) are > different levels of same thing". >
I don't see any contradiction. Its no difference than saying that atoms, molecules, cells, organs, and bodies are different levels of the same thing. > > Computation is mentioned 3 time (comp not at all) but does not seem to > be what we refer to as COMP. > COMP I don't talk about much because I understand it to be false. Computation is an effect of sense, not a cause. COMP is an unsupported assumption about the supremacy of computation. Craig > > > On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Craig Weinberg > <whats...@gmail.com<javascript:>> > wrote: > > > > > > On Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:19:54 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: > >> > >> On 10/16/2012 12:41 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: > >> > >> On 10/16/2012 2:42 PM, meekerdb wrote: > >> > >> On 10/16/2012 7:44 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: > >> > >> Hi Alberto, > >> > >> OK, I am officially confused by your statements. You previously > wrote: > >> "Magic emergence from magic enough complexity has been advocated for > almost > >> anything." and now you suggest that consciousness is contingent on a > level > >> of evolution, ala: "... in this stage of evolution a form of > consciousness > >> becomes a necessity". > >> How is this not an argument for emergence from complexity? What is > >> evolution other than a mechanism in Nature to generate increasing > stable > >> complex structures in the physical universe? Either consciousness is an > >> irreducible primitive or it is not? > >> I agree that complexity *is* involved when we consider issues such > as > >> "reportablity" of consciousness, but the property of "having a > subjective > >> experience of being in the world" itself can be strongly argued to flow > at > >> the most basic level that allows differences. > >> > >> > >> If there are no inputs from the world to perceive, e.g. a person in a > >> sensory deprivation tank, or the 'perceptions' are very simple > interactions, > >> e.g. an orbital electron scattering a photon what will be the content > of > >> this subjective experience? > >> > >> Brent > >> -- > >> > >> Hi Brent, > >> > >> How so? Do we humans have "orbital electron scattering" of photons > as > >> actual experiential content? > >> > >> > >> No, but Craig thinks electrons do. > > > > > > Only if electrons actually exist. I think there is a good chance that > they > > are only the shared experience of atoms. > > > >> > >> > >> It seems to me that all talk of "orbital electron scattering a photon" > >> that is an abstract narrative that we talk to each other about and use > to > >> make predictions of phenomena that is within our sphere of mutual > >> non-contradiction. > >> > >> > >> Sure, the 3p story is one we create to explain intersubjective > agreement > >> about 1p experience. But my point is that consciousness is not basic, > >> otherwise it wouldn't need external stimuli to avoid infinite loops. > > > > > > I can't find anything about infinite loops associated with sensory > > deprivation. I have never heard it mentioned and even the author of this > > article > > > http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/the-nothing-eaters/Content?oid=5539022 > > > spent 90 to 2.5 hours in there with no mention of any such thing. > > > > Craig > > > >> > >> Brent > >> > >> Our knowledge of physical laws, like all content of experience is 1p > that > >> could be defined as 3p iff possible. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Onward! > >> > >> Stephen > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Everything List" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> everything-li...@googlegroups.com. > >> > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > >> > >> > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "Everything List" group. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/BM2YYqCtqJEJ. > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > everyth...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > everything-li...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/XJABpyoeexwJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
