Moreover, our program can be either revised, copied, or both, etc.
This is one reason professor, Eric Steinhart's work seems compelling
to me. The following summary is available from his book, Your
Digital Afterlives, but here is a taste, from Steinhart's website-
http://ericsteinhart.com/FLESH/flesh-chabs.html
I will have to read this more carefully, but I think I get the gist
of it. Most of the ideas are not new to me, and correspond to things
that I enjoy thinking about myself.
I have gone through several revisions of my belief system about
these topics, so it's likely that I can be convinced by good, new
ideas.
Just in case you don't know, I really enjoyed this book at some point:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Never-Ending-Days-Being-Dead/dp/0571220568
It's mostly a sampler of theories on these topics, and some have
already been falsified (like the omega point, I believe).
The best of these theories is Promotion, but Steinhart views his own
idea as flawed, because he wants it to be progressive rather then
regressive. I don't see the logical regression he seemed concerned
about, He did come up with Revision theory, as workable, however,
these are merely, better-off clones of ourselves, and miss the
continuity, that infers identity. Promotion is better, because it
does exactly this, via pipelines, processes, data transfers, as well
as uploading and teleportation.
Ok, I have no problem with any of this stuff. I will try to
summarize how my current view of things intersects with these topics.
I think immortality is a given. I suspect we are all versions of the
same thing (as conscious entities) and that all moments are eternal.
I think the perception of a time line arises inside each eternal
observer moment.
What does not appear possible, at the moment, is to have very long
"story lines". I cannot be Telmo for a time span of many centuries
(disregarding Quantum Immortality issues). It would be nice if we
could do that. I think there is potentially great value in having
human being that extend their personal development way beyond our
biological limitations.
So the issue becomes: how to preserve a set of memories and transfer
them to another medium, so that we can extend story lines? This
could take the form of Promotion, trans-humanism, mind uploading,
who know what else...
I would just say that the story lines problem is somewhat tangencial
to the simulated reality problem.
Sorry if I'm rambling, I don't have a lot of time at the moment...
This is one reason I want to see if Ben Goetzel has an afterlife-
resurrection theory, because they both appeared to have come to the
same conclusions, independently, on several other concepts.
Steinhart, like Goetzel, is a computationalist (digitalist) - (5
minute video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfDB35y-5Z0
I am mostly ok with this video. My only objection is that time must
not exist in the maximally simple universe, so thinking about
causality between universes seems problematic. This is part of what
attracts me to Platonia and this list: the idea that everything
already exists, and what is called causality is just structure.
Please let me know if you uncover anything concerning Ben Goetzel's
views. Thanks.
The AGI conference is going to be in my city in the end of July. I
am not sure I will be able to attend, but if I can I will try to ask
Ben in person.
Telmo.
Mitch
-----Original Message-----
From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, May 4, 2015 9:08 am
Subject: Re: Michael Shermer becomes sceptical about scepticism!
On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 1:08 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
> wrote:
I sure did, Telmo. Scroll to the bottom and you shall view my last,
number 26th, the last one.
Ah there you are! And you are not the only one from this list
commenting there, it's a small world.
My bet on computational after-lives is that we are in one already
(an infinity of times), but this is completely transparent to us.
This kind of thing is interesting to me. I tend toward the
materialist stuff since it seems to have potential. The mentalist
stuff seems unreliable because people who have NDE's or trances have
not come back with information.
I would say that the important distinction is between communicable
and non-communicable stuff. Science is about communicable stuff, but
there is personal value in exploring the internal world -- although
it won't get you a nobel prize or even any sort of recognition.
-----Original Message-----
From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, May 4, 2015 4:19 am
Subject: Re: Michael Shermer becomes sceptical about scepticism!
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 9:19 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
> wrote:
Hi Telmo,
I have tried the Other Side stuff for a bit, and found it wanting.
Not so surprising... The topic is a string attractor for quacks, for
sure.
Steinhart, said he had some experiences but decided they were not
that significant to himself. He is more buzzed, he said, but the
beauty of mathematics, emotionally. Here is a crowd funded 3D
augmented reality game, due out next year, called Night Terrors, so
much for the paranormal, yes? We maybe, could, have the paranormal
adventure any time we choose.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/05/01/survival-horror-augmented-reality-game-night-terrors-maps-your-house
Wow, this is a brilliant/terrifying idea!
I cross-posted a message to Ben Goetzel on his "Multiverse" website,
as well as on Guilio Prisco's Turing-Church website sight concerning
Goetzel's non-response, to my question to him, about afterlife
ideas, if any? He seemed to touch on this in a recent article, as
well as his 2006, The Hidden Pattern, which I had downloaded, a
couple of months ago. Any data or opinion on Goetzel's view on all
this?
Have you seen this?
http://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.de/2015/03/paranormal-phenomena-nonlocal-mind-and.html
Telmo.
Mitch
-----Original Message-----
From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, May 3, 2015 2:45 pm
Subject: Re: Michael Shermer becomes sceptical about scepticism!
Hi spudboy,
I follow Ben Goetzel and have some of the books he recommends on the
topic on my to-read list.
I remain agnostic on this stuff, and just try to consider the
simplest explanation, even if it's boring. In the case of this
story, this sounds a lot like the event was staged by some nice
person who cares about the bride. This doesn't mean that is the
correct explanation, of course.
What I am more curious about are replicable laboratory experiments.
Some people, like Goetzel, are claiming that results with
statistical significance are known. Maybe this is a nice opportunity
for amateur science, because dealing with this topics would still
career suicide for many people -- even if to find negative results.
Of course believing in the supernatural is absurd -- what does that
even mean? If, for example, ghosts were real, then this would just
mean that current scientific theories are incomplete or wrong.
Cheers,
Telmo.
On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 6:09 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
> wrote:
If you know of Ben Goetzel, and Damien Broderick, as well as Eric
Steinhart, they have claimed Psi experiences, or spiritual
experiences, but are split on the true significance? At the end of
the day, it either works for us, or it doesn't.
-----Original Message-----
From: LizR < lizj...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list < everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, May 3, 2015 7:03 am
Subject: Michael Shermer becomes sceptical about scepticism!
Michael Shermer is the publisher of "Skeptic" magazine, which I used
to subscribe to - but I could only take so many debunkings, lectures
on science, and so on, and eventually I cancelled the sub,
reasonably well convinced that I had by now obtained all the
wherewithal I was ever going to need to give 123 reasons to explain
any apparently supernatural event...
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/anomalous-events-that-can-shake-one-s-skepticism-to-the-core/
It's also a rather nice story.
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