On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 9:48 AM Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *>I think it's possible there was consciousness before there was > intelligence,* > I very much doubt it, but of course nobody will ever be able to prove or disprove it so the proposition fits in very nicely with all existing consciousness literature. > *> you're implicitly working with a theory of consciousness. Then, you're > demanding that I use your theory of consciousness when you insist that I > answer questions about consciousness through the framing of evolution.* > I proposed a question, "How is it possible that evolution managed to produce consciousness?" and I gave the only answer to that question I could think of. And 3 times I've asked you if you can think of another answer. And three times I received nothing back but evasion. I now asked the same question for a fourth time, given that evolution can't select for what it can't see and natural selection can see intelligent behavior but it can't see consciousness, can you give me an explanation different from my own on how evolution managed to produce a conscious being such as yourself? > *> >> do you agree that testimony of experience constitutes facts about >>> consciousness?* >>> >> >> >> Only if I first assume that intelligence implies consciousness, >> otherwise I'd have no way of knowing if the being giving the testimony >> about consciousness was itself conscious. And only if I am convinced >> that the being giving the testimony was as honest as he can be. And only >> if I feel confident we agree about the meeting of certain words, like >> "green" and "red" and "hot" and "cold" and you guessed it "consciousness". >> > > > OK, fine, let's say intelligence implies consciousness, > If you grant me that then what are we arguing about? *>the account given was honest (as in, nobody witnessing the account would > have a credible reason to doubt it),* > The most successful lies are those in which the reason for the lying is not immediately obvious. > * > and we can agree on all those terms.* > Do we really agree on all those terms? How can we know words that refer to qualia mean the same thing to both of us? There is no objective test for it, if there was then qualia wouldn't be subjective, it would be objective. John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>. . > >> . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv0M63Y_GL_rDjOL41uu7pgjvnwfiu2rM0LNWoL-y0Ahfw%40mail.gmail.com.
