Hey New, thanks for responding. I have only one item: It seems like a ruse to maintain people in > subservient positions by the ruling class.
WhoooooAAA. Who said anything about this. Different defs of karma I presume. In India, who made up and > maintained the rule, let me guess. Oh I know, the one who are > mentioned as the highest caste in the system! And it turns out that > challenging their authority will get you a harsh karmic payback. I said karma,not caste. Should I write slower? :) > Karmic theories may arise from our sense of justice. For me, seeing > natural disasters as just random, rather than a pay back for previous > wrongs, seems more compassionate. You were clear enough about karma. I view karma theory and caste to be linked historically and conceptually. Since the same guys who taught both to Indian society just happened to be in the highest caste, and people were taught not to worry their pretty little heads about being in a low caste because if they are good do-bees they will come back in a higher caste next time, I think the ideas are linked. Same with reincarnation. Without it karma theory breaks down, so that theory has to come with the pile to make it work. Caste and the karmic repercussions for bucking the system are presented together in most scriptures I have read that address the topics. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > Hey New, > > > > > > > > Good post Curtis. Actually great. I appreciate your POV. > > > > Thanks. It is really nice that you ask for my POV here. > > > > > > > > Several questions: > > > > > > Why atheism and not agnosticism? > > > > In my understanding agnosticism runs a gambit from believing in God > > but thinking he is unknowable, to what is practically an atheist. So > > agnosticism might fit although I think atheism is more precise. I > > wrote about why the term "atheist" isn't completely satisfactory. But > > I have a pretty good idea of the specifics of how the world's > > religious scriptures were written by men who created different God > > ideas. I haven't seen anything in any scripture that would make me > > think it was beyond the ability of men to create. So I don't share any > > of the theistic views, I am a-theist. > > > > That said, we still might find out there is a creator to the universe. > > I just don't think man has done so yet. I think we need to know a > > lot more about the mystical experiences we have induced with > > meditation and their causes. Humans love to take the content of their > > compelling subjective experiences at face value. In particular, we > > seem vulnerable to quickly believing the mystical experiences makes us > > "special" and the language of religion and spiritual traditions > > supports this elevated view of self. (even promoting it to "Self") I > > believe that this messes up a more humble approach to mystical > > experiences that isn't value ridden with traditional interpretations > > of their meaning. > > > I get it. And agree -- with requisite (minor) qualifications. > (grandiose weasal words) > > > "I don't know" seems more compatible > with the latter.> > > > > I feel at least as confident as about the Santa myth so far. > > > > > In your POV: > > > 1) Where does karma stand? > > > > I don't believe in a mechanism that keeps track of actions and don't > > even understand what kind of moral equivalents the karma theories I > > came across are claiming. > > I do see action and reaction in physics and at least surface social > stuff (smile and everyone smiles back, be very helpful and caring to > EVERYONE -- and you get help and caring when you need it.) So I can > extrapolate that to farther reaching things. With some significant > probability of being wrong. > > And karma is foundational to me. It explains an elegant universe > without an active God. (doesn't preclude passive, hidden Deist one) > > And Jyotish is the map of karma, it is said. I am not offering a > proof, or even a belief in karma.But damn, it so so uncannily right on > sometimes. I just changed sub dashas (out of worst saturn period > possible) and damn, if what has happened in the last month, hasn't > been there in my chart for 50 years. > > It seems like a ruse to maintain people in > > subservient positions by the ruling class. > > WhoooooAAA. Who said anything about this. Different defs of karma I > presume. > > In India, who made up and > > maintained the rule, let me guess. Oh I know, the one who are > > mentioned as the highest caste in the system! And it turns out that > > challenging their authority will get you a harsh karmic payback. > > I said karma,not caste. Should I write slower? :) > > > Karmic theories may arise from our sense of justice. For me, seeing > > natural disasters as just random, rather than a pay back for previous > > wrongs, seems more compassionate. > > I see you never visted NO before Katrina. (Joke -- with some pebble of > truth perhaps). Collective Karma. Bridge of San Luis Rey. Not just > an Indian concept. > > So the karma theory doesn't help > > me. If it were true I don't see how man could know the details. It > > seems far fetched to me that men know such things. > > > > > 2) Can scriptures have a value in ethics, a la, the Jefferson Bible. > > > > As part of our human history they have been instrumental in all > > cultures in forming ethics, but we are starting to see where modern > > times may have moved beyond some of the religious views, think stem > > cell research and women's rights I a fan of the Bible and have read > > it thoughtfully a number of times. I don't think it provideds good as > > ethical guidance today. I think the Greeks may have given us much > > better tools to consider what kind of society we want to create > > together, which is the fruit of ethics. > > Yes. but Sheep? > > > > The Vedic scriptures seem great at laying out the many many variables > > in making ethical decisions. It doesn't seem to offer simple answers, > > but provides fuel for discussion. This discussion needs to take place > > in an atmosphere of humility where no one stands up and says "I know > > what God wants us to do". This is killing out ability to refine our > > ethics today. Religion is a start of the ethical discussion, not the > > end. I am a fan of Jefferson but think he may have elevated the > > importance of Jesus as an ethical teacher too high. We can do better. > > Naivly, perhaps, I still dig Jesus, my bro, as an ethical teacher. > > > (And "turn the other check" doesn't mean what you were thinking.) > > > And modern man has done much better when he can rise above the > > standard laid out a long time ago. Look at all the progress we have > > made by departing from Biblical ethics, slavery, women's rights... > > > > Well thats not Jesus per se (who might be a good PR myth) > > > > 3) How do you feel about chicks who scream "Oh God! OH GOD!!" at > > > the height of passion? > > > > Too good to answer only once: > > > > 1. Women are supposed to feel something when I am getting mine? > > Fascinating, that explains why they have been running away after. > > > 2. I am sympathetic with women who feel that my mojo must have a > > supernatural origin. > > I like the "Oh God" thing in that they may then show compassion for > the underwhelming and underperforming (you and Turq being huge exceptions) > > > > 3. Is that what they are saying? Damn, I always assumed they were > > calling out the name of their last boyfriend and kicked them out of bed. > > Yeah, my last gf used to date God. I mean having to meet high > expectations! > > > 4. I have never heard this. Do women say that before or after they > > scream "Who are you, I'm gunna press charges"? > > Yeah, but only you and turq date 15 year olds. (oops,edg just had a > cerebral hemerage -- spurting blood, clocked at 320 mph.) > > > > > > Thanks for the questions. If you care to weigh in with your > > perspective on all this I would love to read it. > > > I may later.But I am a very confused, retrograde soul. Hard to sort > out all these high fallutin concepts. I am more into loving the Wonder. >
