On Mar 24, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Duveyoung wrote:
Vaj,
Don't Buddhists have this thing where a group of them get together and
then sort of have a boisterous debate about the nuances of a
scripture? If so, do you know of any Web sites where these
discussions are translated into English?
The "missed" opportunity between brothers theme of this thread seems
to indicate that the brothers lacked this dynamic -- which I think is
the heart of scholarship.
Presumably, the Buddhists debates would be incredibly subtle and
jargon filled, but someone like me should find them accessable,
didactic and deepeningly insightful -- you know, what we'd have here
if personal attacks we're somehow stopped.
Or, erp, maybe the Buddhists use all the fallacious strategies too --
pray tell, Bub.
I'm guessing you're thinking of the Gelukpa sect of Tibetan Buddhism,
the same sect the Dalai Lama comes from. They have a very refined
tradition of debate.
I'd check the Berzin Archives which is a good resource with more of a
Gelukpa slant to it. Just put the word "debate" in the search field
at http://www.berzinarchives.com
The Purpose and Benefits of Debate
Tsenzhab Serkong Rinpoche II
from explanations translated and summarized
by Alexander Berzin
Mundgod, India, August 20, 2001
One of the main purposes of debate in the Buddhist training is to
help you to develop decisive awareness (nges-shes). You take a
position and then your debate partner challenges it from many points
of view. If you can defend the position against all objections and
you find that it has no logical inconsistencies and there are no
contradictions, you can focus on that position or view with totally
decisive awareness that cannot be shaken. We also call this state of
mind firm conviction (mos-pa). You need to have this convinced
awareness and firm conviction when meditating single- mindedly on any
topic, such as impermanence, the equality of self and others,
regarding others as more precious than oneself, bodhichitta,
voidness, and so on.
Further, debating provides a situation more conducive than meditation
for beginners to develop concentration. The challenge of your partner
in the debate and the influence of having classmates listening force
you to concentrate. When meditating alone, only willpower brings you
to stop mentally wandering or falling asleep. In addition, on the
monastic debate grounds many debates take place very loudly next to
each other. This also forces you to concentrate. If the debates
around you distract you or cause you to be annoyed, you are lost.
Once you develop concentration skills on the debate ground, you can
apply them to meditation, even to meditating in noisy places.
Moreover, debate helps to develop your personality. You cannot remain
shy and still debate. You must speak up when your opponent challenges
you. On the other hand, if you are arrogant or become angry, your
mind is unclear and, inevitably, your partner defeats you. At all
times, you need to maintain emotional balance. Whether you win or
lose, the debate provides an excellent opportunity to recognize the
"I" that is to be refuted. When you think or feel "I have won; I am
so clever," or "I have lost; I am so stupid," you can recognize
clearly the projection of a solid, self- important "me" with which
you are identifying. This is the "I" that is a pure fiction and to be
refuted.
Even when you prove to your debate partner that his position is
illogical, you need to remember that this does not prove that you are
the smarter one and that he is stupid. Your motivation must always be
to help your partner to develop clear understanding and firm
conviction in what can be logically proven.
http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/sutra/
level1_getting_started/approaching_study_meditation/
purpose_benefits_debate.html?query=debate
