> > > > > > > I genuinely want to know which techniques out there are > > > > > > > effortless and do not require concentration. > > > > > > > > > > > > You must've missed the "TM is not effortless" thread here > > > > > > sometime ago. TM is *easy* but not truly effortless. > > > > > > > > > > BS. No effort is required to do TM. Some effort may > > > > > happen on occasssion, and obsessing about how much > > > > > or how little, if any, is > > > > > detrimental, but no effort is required. > > > > > > > > BS. You're supposed to start by thinking something > > > > in particular (the mantra). I've practiced techniques > > > > in which no such artificiality is required. > > > > > > Precisely my point. Sheesh you almost get the mpression > > > these guys > > > only have ever believed what they are told. > > > > Says Vaj, demonstrating without question that he never > > got the knack of TM. > > > > Again: It has nothing to do with "what we were told." > > That's Vaj's and Barry's standard copout. It has to > > do with personal experience. > > Or lack thereof.
Just for the purpose of intellectual argument (which it seems is what you're looking for), let's examine Vaj's statement above in the context of relative sets of experience. Vaj and I are talking about *contrasting* the effort- lessness of techniques we have personally practiced with the supposed effortlessness of TM. We have had experience of *both* types of meditation. Based on that *comparative* experience, both of us can comfort- ably say that other techniques are really effortless, whereas TM has a subtle degree of effort involved with it. (A notion that Maharishi himself is on record as agreeing with, a fact which both of you choose to ignore.) You and Judy have had experience with only *one* of them. Based on that, you seem to be claiming that TM *is* completely effortless. But neither of you has ever experienced a style of meditation that is *really* effortless, and that doesn't even involved thinking a particular thought (the mantra) or "coming back to" anything (again, the mantra). And you're chiding US on our "lack of experience?" I would suggest that Vaj is RIGHT ON with his sugges- tion that your entire stance is based on wHAT YOU WERE TOLD about TM's supposed effortlessness. You were told, over and over and over and over, that it is effortless, and now you can't even *conceive* of it being any other way. You *interpret* your personal experience as 'effortlessness,' because you were TOLD that it was effortlessness. You have no experience of what effortlessness might really BE in the world of meditation. But you're willing to claim that other people, who HAVE experienced a style of meditation that really IS effortless, are mistaken and that you are correct. Doncha just love the humility that TM instills in its adherents? :-) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
