No. Meaning that starting from a place of no-trust in an environment where trust is critical is wrong.
Ross -----Original Message----- From: Pierre Smits [mailto:pierre.sm...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 2:26 PM To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Mentor neutrality policy Meaning: proactively trying to doing the right thing, trying to define boundaries before wrongdoing happens, is wrong? Best regards, Pierre Smits *OFBiz Extensions Marketplace* https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2foem.ofbizci.net%2foci-2%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7ce3df44d6e18b409c180c08d2d0f042cc%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=jTO4UHTjBVDxUGUNMAPv5ocD5hBmTU0Xj9xM1PTNWEk%3d On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 10:51 PM, Chris Douglas <cdoug...@apache.org> wrote: > Daniel- > > If you have these concerns about mentors, a TLP proposal, or even an > active TLP substantiated only by private information: notify the board > via board-private@. That's why it's there. > > The proposal accuses mentors of selling influence, and acting contrary > to the foundation's interest. That is by definition a problem to which > we react, with proof of guilt. "Proactively" treating volunteers as > suspect demands that mentors prove their innocence. Assuming guilt is > not "proactive," but uncivil and immoral. > > There are also practical objections. Every IPMC member has a binding > vote on decisions made by the incubator, period. IPMC members may > voluntarily recuse themselves, but a policy that suppresses the votes > of "suspicious" groups is invalid. > > The TLP resolution is only recommended by the IPMC. Anything achieved > by this proposal is better implemented by the board considering that > recommendation in context- including evidence provided privately- and > rejecting improper proposals with actionable feedback to the PPMC. -C > > On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:36 AM, Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org> > wrote: > > Does there always have to be an actual problem before we can propose > > a policy? must we always be reactive instead of proactive? > > > > Yes, I am in a way implying that some mentors are, perhaps, not > > neutral in their work. I will not back it up with specific names or > > contexts, as I don't want to take a trip to lawsuit town for things > > I cannot back up with publicly available information. > > > > I don't find this to be uncivil accusations - can you outline a > > specific segment that you find uncivil? I am proposing a set of > > basic rules - which is naturally up for discussion and improvement - > > that would potentially alleviate us from having some nasty > > discussions - whether they be public or private - about the > > neutrality and honesty of recommendations, and hopefully ensure we > > have a more leveled playing field in the incubator. > > > > I'll stop here, as my eyesight is playing a trick on me today and > > not allowing me to see what I type. > > > > With regards, > > Daniel. > > > > On 10/09/2015 08:03 PM, Chris Douglas wrote: > >> What problem does this solve? > >> > >> This proposal lacks context. It implies that mentors are not > >> neutral, and that they are motivated by interests not shared by the > >> ASF. But it does not outline the merits of that belief, neither > >> does it specify how this proposal would address them. Instead of > >> allowing those definitions to float, this discussion would be more > >> productive if it were about some concrete problems for which there > >> is evidence. Yet another thread of rude responses to uncivil > >> accusations is unproductive, even if it is an IPMC tradition. -C > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:07 AM, Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org> > wrote: > >>> Hi Incubator folks, > >>> > >>> I would like to propose we adopt a mentor neutrality policy for > >>> incubating podlings: > >>> > >>> - A mentor must not be financially tied to the project or its > incubation > >>> status. > >>> - A mentor must not have a vested interest in incubating, > >>> graduating or dismantling a podling that goes beyond the general > >>> Apache mission > >>> - A mentor must not be affiliated with the entity granting the > >>> code (company or original project community) > >>> > >>> Furthermore, I would like to see this extended to votes on > >>> graduating > or > >>> retiring podlings, so that only people with no organizational > >>> (aparty from the ASF) or financial ties to the project (or the > >>> companies behind > >>> it) can cast a binding vote on graduation or retirement. > >>> > >>> This would essentially mean: > >>> > >>> - If you work for a company (or are hired as consultant/advisor) > >>> that > is > >>> entering a project into incubation, you cannot mentor it nor vote > >>> for/against its incubation, graduation or retirement. > >>> - If you are a in the original community behind the project, you > >>> cannot mentor it nor vote for/against it. > >>> > >>> I believe this would create a neutral mentorship whose sole > >>> mission is to guide podlings with the interests of the ASF in mind. > >>> > >>> > >>> Please do discuss this. If there is (mostly) positive feedback, I > >>> would like to, at some point, have a vote on including this in the > >>> Incubator policy. I realize this would cut down on the number of > >>> potential mentors, and I would ask that more people step up to the > >>> challenge of mentoring if adopted. > >>> > >>> With regards, > >>> Daniel > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: > >>> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
