I don't feel that the idea: "Not in valve's best intentions to care that much about the SDK like Epic" is an excuse any longer. Regardless of the fact that source is lagging behind in it's own way, I feel this wouldn't be so much of a problem if there weren't so many fucking engine versions. I don't wanted a better version of Orange box, I want a better version of Source, one thats currently present in games like left 4 Dead2, or Portal 2, AS, etc.
I feel that if valve we're to (if they really love engine versions) create a separate version just for modding, they could dump a lot of new engine features (minus gameplay and game specifics) into that branch, thus solving the problem of using a shitty version of Source, and a different version altogether. On that note (and as far as I'm aware: Mike Durand is the *Only *guy up at valve working on the SDK. If this is true, valve needs to seriously hire some more people. I don't know what keeps Mike busy everyday, so much to the point where most promised SDK updates get delayed months, but it needs to change. My liking of modding on Source isn't wanning because of what the engine can do, it's wanning because I'm not sure if I'm going to commit my time and resources onto a project, for it only to be crippled by some update for the SDK in the future. Even more so, for me to sit there and wait an indefinite amount of time for a fix to come along. Lastly I also feel the whole "you're getting this for free" isn't a valid counter anymore for this subject. Free is an entirely different side when Valve almost seems, and feels obligated to release a SDK with every game they release. Sure, it's free, but thats only because it's within their model of business. Even so, I don't think charging people for a Level editor to make custom maps or what have you is really going to work out. We need to look at the obvious situations that would arise had valve sold the SDK to begin with. They continually highlight the availability of tools for each title they release. My point being here: Promising tools only works if the tools you release aren't going to require updates for them that get delayed, or semi working tools, or features entirely missing. Because there is no actual: "*Heres everything you can touch and can't*" type of document, we've been left to figuring out the majority of this stuff out on our own. That vague line between what the tools can even do to begin with is reason enough to argue about them being broken. Overall if people are getting tired with modding on Source, it's reasonable now. People at Interlopers are, PP, Steam Forums, Mapcore. Source is getting a lot of flak now, from many corners of the internet, and it's kind of sad. I love source, but god damn do I hate the tools. Oh man speaking of which. Remeber when Valve said multicore support was to ship with Half Life 2 Episode 2? Yeah that was back in 2007. It never *fully worked* until 2010. Oh and thats right, we modders can't use it yet, because that promised 2009 mod support update was mentioned 5 months ago, and *still* hasn't happened. On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Greg M. <g...@gregmourino.com> wrote: > I can relate. I've been using the Source SDK for the past year on a school > project, and there have been some incredibly frustrating moments. There > have > been times where the project had to be put on hold because tools suddenly > stopped working after an update. I had to come up with a slightly > ridiculous > workflow to make some of the older scripts and plugins jive with newer > setups. > > There have been good moments too, like when the load time for hammer was > suddenly dropped by a huge margin. And the release of their assets and rigs > from some of the "Meet The..." shorts. We are getting new tools and > features, and we haven't been forgotten. It's just that the sdk isn't the > *top* priority at the company. I think a lot of the angry news posts and > articles forget that. Their business is really to make games, not > user-friendly tools, and in the past couple years they have been really > busy. > > Like a lot of things, it goes both ways. The source engine is pretty fun, > and I love being able to do the things I can do on it. And man, it's been > one heck of a learning experience. But for my next project, I'm considering > switching platforms for the reason you mentioned: lots of time spent > getting > the tools working. It cuts into my ability to make progress sometimes, and > that spare time is precious enough as it is. > > -Greg > > > > > On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard < > tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Mike Durand introduced himself as a new employee at Valve, that's hired > to > > focus on the Source SDK, and updating it. > > I quote "My full time job is to make sure that you have everything they > > need > > to build your games." > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:13:13 -0700 > > From: "Mike Durand" <mdur...@valvesoftware.com> > > To: <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > > Subject: [hlcoders] Upcoming SDK Release > > Reply-To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > Given the recent traffic on the list, it seems like a good time to > > introduce myself to everyone here, and talk about what I do at Valve. > > > > I started work here in June and have been given the task of working > > directly with the MOD community. This means that my primary > > responsibilities are to package and release the SDK, make it easier to > > use, and work with MOD makers on problems that they can't solve with the > > help of other members of the community. > > > > My full time job is to make sure that you have everything they need to > > build your games. I'll be hanging out on this list, as well as the VDC, > > but you can also feel free to contact me directly with any questions you > > have at mdur...@valvesoftware.com. > > > > So now that the introduction is out of the way here's the part that you > > really care about: an SDK update is coming out very soon. Right now we > > are testing it in-house and getting ready for its beta release. It will > > be available later this week unless we encounter serious problems during > > testing. I'll let people know either way, whether it is going to be this > > week or next. Once I get all of the details together, I'll send the info > > on what is coming in this SDK release to this list. > > > > -Mike > > > > > > That's four years ago. It pretty much went down hill since the Orange Box > > code was released. I remember in 2003 when Gabe Newell promoted Steam in > > several different interviews, saying how Steam would make publishing > > updates > > to the end user way easier for them, yes its easier for them, but over > the > > years its just getting harder and harder for us working with the Source > > SDK. > > > > I see a lot of people ditching the Source Engine over the UDK, and I'm > > starting to see why. I'm a big fan of Valve games, and I've defended the > > Source SDK and the Source engine many times. > > > > I didn't really recognize too much in the articles that's popped up > lately, > > such as these, and honestly I was a little offended. > > > > http://www.halflife2.net/2010/08/16/sdk-soul-destroying-kit/ > > > > > http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/valve-you-should-be-ashamed-of-yourselves/ > > > > Yeah we're getting the SDK for free, and the tools are great to work > with. > > Except for one little thing. Most of them don't work properly. I love how > > they're still using command line apps, so e.g. I can call my compile > > scripts > > directly from context menus. > > > > What I really miss is not having to spend 10 minutes on making the SDK or > > tools run before I can actually test whatever I've changed or made. > > > > I'm setting the bar low, and not expecting any response from anyone at > > Valve, that way I won't be more disappointed. > > > > I guess I just needed to get it off my chest. > > > > > > I hope to hear from other people on this list, that feels the same way, > or > > want to share their opinion on this matter. For those that find it > annoying > > to receive these kind of messages, feel free to mute the conversation. > > > > - ScarT > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > -- Gear Dev _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
