They don't have time for the SDK Cory. They're too busy selling other people's games. :P
--Bob On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Cory de La Torre <gear....@gmail.com>wrote: > I don't feel that the idea: "Not in valve's best intentions to care that > much about the SDK like Epic" is an excuse any longer. Regardless of the > fact that source is lagging behind in it's own way, I feel this wouldn't be > so much of a problem if there weren't so many fucking engine versions. I > don't wanted a better version of Orange box, I want a better version of > Source, one thats currently present in games like left 4 Dead2, or Portal > 2, > AS, etc. > > I feel that if valve we're to (if they really love engine versions) create > a separate version just for modding, they could dump a lot of new engine > features (minus gameplay and game specifics) into that branch, thus solving > the problem of using a shitty version of Source, and a different > version altogether. > > On that note (and as far as I'm aware: Mike Durand is the *Only *guy up at > valve working on the SDK. If this is true, valve needs to seriously hire > some more people. I don't know what keeps Mike busy everyday, so much to > the > point where most promised SDK updates get delayed months, but it needs to > change. My liking of modding on Source isn't wanning because of what the > engine can do, it's wanning because I'm not sure if I'm going to commit my > time and resources onto a project, for it only to be crippled by some > update > for the SDK in the future. Even more so, for me to sit there and wait > an indefinite amount of time for a fix to come along. > > Lastly I also feel the whole "you're getting this for free" isn't a valid > counter anymore for this subject. Free is an entirely different side when > Valve almost seems, and feels obligated to release a SDK with every game > they release. Sure, it's free, but thats only because it's > within their model of business. Even so, I don't think charging people for > a > Level editor to make custom maps or what have you is really going to work > out. We need to look at the obvious situations that would arise had valve > sold the SDK to begin with. They continually highlight the availability of > tools for each title they release. My point being here: Promising tools > only > works if the tools you release aren't going to require updates for them > that > get delayed, or semi working tools, or features entirely missing. > > Because there is no actual: "*Heres everything you can touch and can't*" > type of document, we've been left to figuring out the majority of this > stuff > out on our own. That vague line between what the tools can even do to begin > with is reason enough to argue about them being broken. > > Overall if people are getting tired with modding on Source, it's reasonable > now. People at Interlopers are, PP, Steam Forums, Mapcore. Source is > getting > a lot of flak now, from many corners of the internet, and it's kind of sad. > I love source, but god damn do I hate the tools. Oh man speaking of which. > Remeber when Valve said multicore support was to ship with Half Life 2 > Episode 2? Yeah that was back in 2007. It never *fully worked* until 2010. > Oh and thats right, we modders can't use it yet, because that promised 2009 > mod support update was mentioned 5 months ago, and *still* hasn't happened. > > > On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Greg M. <g...@gregmourino.com> wrote: > > > I can relate. I've been using the Source SDK for the past year on a > school > > project, and there have been some incredibly frustrating moments. There > > have > > been times where the project had to be put on hold because tools suddenly > > stopped working after an update. I had to come up with a slightly > > ridiculous > > workflow to make some of the older scripts and plugins jive with newer > > setups. > > > > There have been good moments too, like when the load time for hammer was > > suddenly dropped by a huge margin. And the release of their assets and > rigs > > from some of the "Meet The..." shorts. We are getting new tools and > > features, and we haven't been forgotten. It's just that the sdk isn't the > > *top* priority at the company. I think a lot of the angry news posts and > > articles forget that. Their business is really to make games, not > > user-friendly tools, and in the past couple years they have been really > > busy. > > > > Like a lot of things, it goes both ways. The source engine is pretty fun, > > and I love being able to do the things I can do on it. And man, it's been > > one heck of a learning experience. But for my next project, I'm > considering > > switching platforms for the reason you mentioned: lots of time spent > > getting > > the tools working. It cuts into my ability to make progress sometimes, > and > > that spare time is precious enough as it is. > > > > -Greg > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard < > > tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Mike Durand introduced himself as a new employee at Valve, that's hired > > to > > > focus on the Source SDK, and updating it. > > > I quote "My full time job is to make sure that you have everything they > > > need > > > to build your games." > > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:13:13 -0700 > > > From: "Mike Durand" <mdur...@valvesoftware.com> > > > To: <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > > > Subject: [hlcoders] Upcoming SDK Release > > > Reply-To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > Given the recent traffic on the list, it seems like a good time to > > > introduce myself to everyone here, and talk about what I do at Valve. > > > > > > I started work here in June and have been given the task of working > > > directly with the MOD community. This means that my primary > > > responsibilities are to package and release the SDK, make it easier to > > > use, and work with MOD makers on problems that they can't solve with > the > > > help of other members of the community. > > > > > > My full time job is to make sure that you have everything they need to > > > build your games. I'll be hanging out on this list, as well as the VDC, > > > but you can also feel free to contact me directly with any questions > you > > > have at mdur...@valvesoftware.com. > > > > > > So now that the introduction is out of the way here's the part that you > > > really care about: an SDK update is coming out very soon. Right now we > > > are testing it in-house and getting ready for its beta release. It will > > > be available later this week unless we encounter serious problems > during > > > testing. I'll let people know either way, whether it is going to be > this > > > week or next. Once I get all of the details together, I'll send the > info > > > on what is coming in this SDK release to this list. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > That's four years ago. It pretty much went down hill since the Orange > Box > > > code was released. I remember in 2003 when Gabe Newell promoted Steam > in > > > several different interviews, saying how Steam would make publishing > > > updates > > > to the end user way easier for them, yes its easier for them, but over > > the > > > years its just getting harder and harder for us working with the Source > > > SDK. > > > > > > I see a lot of people ditching the Source Engine over the UDK, and I'm > > > starting to see why. I'm a big fan of Valve games, and I've defended > the > > > Source SDK and the Source engine many times. > > > > > > I didn't really recognize too much in the articles that's popped up > > lately, > > > such as these, and honestly I was a little offended. > > > > > > http://www.halflife2.net/2010/08/16/sdk-soul-destroying-kit/ > > > > > > > > > http://www.planetphillip.com/posts/valve-you-should-be-ashamed-of-yourselves/ > > > > > > Yeah we're getting the SDK for free, and the tools are great to work > > with. > > > Except for one little thing. Most of them don't work properly. I love > how > > > they're still using command line apps, so e.g. I can call my compile > > > scripts > > > directly from context menus. > > > > > > What I really miss is not having to spend 10 minutes on making the SDK > or > > > tools run before I can actually test whatever I've changed or made. > > > > > > I'm setting the bar low, and not expecting any response from anyone at > > > Valve, that way I won't be more disappointed. > > > > > > I guess I just needed to get it off my chest. > > > > > > > > > I hope to hear from other people on this list, that feels the same way, > > or > > > want to share their opinion on this matter. For those that find it > > annoying > > > to receive these kind of messages, feel free to mute the conversation. > > > > > > - ScarT > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > -- > Gear Dev > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
