Bottiger and his drama aside, thank you to Tohru Adachi for reminding me that the 3rd group using fake unusual hats was Wonderland.tf
On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 7:33 PM, Lyrai <lyr...@gmail.com> wrote: > There's that mailing list drama. > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 4:29 PM, Nomaan Ahmad <n0man....@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Someone, turn off the oven, the roast is ready. >> >> On 9 November 2017 at 00:14, bottige...@gmail.com <bottige...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Also, my main problem with this idea stems from other groups out there >>>> that do things that I would call "not Valve-friendly". We have groups out >>>> there using fake unusual hat plugins still to this day (TitanTF, Skial, >>>> there was a third big one I can't remember). >>> >>> >>> Hello 404 user not found. >>> >>> The only thing we do is attach particles to hats, we do not give out >>> real hats. It was not illegal for years up until the quickplay rule came >>> out much later and we promptly disabled the plugin on those servers. I feel >>> it is fair for us to be able to use some game assets in this manner as >>> there is not really much else players will pay for without going pay2win, >>> especially when you are hosting vanilla servers. But if there was a change >>> made by Valve to benefit community servers with the requirement that the >>> plugin be disabled, we would have no problem doing so. >>> >>> This is also a funny complaint from someone that is also selling >>> unusuals as a donator feature. >>> >>> It is really sad that you can't stop holding a grudge for being banned >>> for racism 7 years ago for a single day and then complaining that we were >>> being greedy because you were able to pay for your own server with your >>> welfare check. So much so, that you continue to trash talk us all this time >>> every chance you get on every major forum related to tf2. >>> >>> ------ >>> >>> Anyway back to community servers in general. Community servers are >>> hurting in so many ways that a single solution short of bringing back >>> quickplay isn't going to stop the current collapse. >>> >>> 1) The GUI could be vastly improved. There are some lessons to be >>> learned from Overwatch. https://i.imgur.com/7yURDHc.png Notice how each >>> game mode is equally visible, while in TF2 there is a clear bias towards >>> the game mode at the top given how small the menu is. There's also no need >>> for Training and Create Server to be in the same list either which probably >>> hardly ever get used. >>> >>> 2) There needs to be some kind of quickplay system for community >>> servers. People are too conditioned to being able to play in 1 click for >>> too long that a browser cannot compete anymore. >>> >>> 3) Every contract that comes out causes major damage. It would be simple >>> to create a few contracts that can only be done on community servers, >>> perhaps giving a smaller reward if Valve is worried about abuse. Even if >>> the rewards weren't as large, it would help make more new players aware. >>> When the casual servers were down in the first 2 days of the patch, we had >>> a lot of players that said they never knew community servers even existed >>> due to problem #1. >>> >>> That's all the suggestions I have that have not been mentioned and >>> ignored in the past. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 1:43 PM, 404 <404usernotfound...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> "The stipulation would be that in order to host an contract capable >>>> server, the server owner would need to pay a fee to Valve in addition to >>>> signing a contract which ideally would be negotiated through some members >>>> of the community and Valve directly." >>>> >>>> I dislike this idea as it stands. Some smaller communities who would >>>> want to have an "official" server would be screwed especially if the >>>> operator doesn't have a Paypal. I'm not saying this to indicate that I >>>> would be one such person with such an issue, as I have no issues paying the >>>> monthly cost of my VPS and would have no issue tacking on any kind of fee >>>> for an "official" server. I know several smaller communities that something >>>> like this would affect negatively. >>>> >>>> Also, my main problem with this idea stems from other groups out there >>>> that do things that I would call "not Valve-friendly". We have groups out >>>> there using fake unusual hat plugins still to this day (TitanTF, Skial, >>>> there was a third big one I can't remember). Come Halloween, we still get >>>> servers popping up that run a plugin that just teleports everyone to a gift >>>> spawn at a set interval and continues to teleport people to the next spawn >>>> on the map until the gift is collected. The community can't be trusted to >>>> adhere to Valve's guidelines. This is best seen in the CSGO server hosting >>>> community where fake coins/skins/sprays/gloves/etc are still a huge sore on >>>> the arse of the community and there's still people selling plugins (and >>>> claiming they won't get your GLST tokens blacklisted, that's part of their >>>> advertising) that allow for these things. >>>> >>>> Aside from groups choosing not to follow Valve's guidelines and the >>>> damaging effect the idea could have on smaller groups, I don't think having >>>> a contract would do much either. Would the contract state "you are not to >>>> use fake unusual hat plugins"? If so, I doubt anyone would care or even >>>> follow that guideline. The idea sounds good, but it raises more questions >>>> than it answers. >>>> >>>> Also yes, an invite to this servers.tf discord would be nice. It'd be >>>> nice to not leave other server operators out of the discussion. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 2:38 PM, ghostboy1225 <ghostboy21...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> may we get a link to the server.tf discord since i haven't found it >>>>> in the last few days >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 7:17 PM, Rowedahelicon < >>>>> theoneando...@rowedahelicon.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The proposal: >>>>>> I am proposing that a system be integrated into the TF2 server >>>>>> community that would allow community server owners to run "official" >>>>>> community servers that would have access to contract progression like a >>>>>> standard Valve server. The stipulation would be that in order to host an >>>>>> contract capable server, the server owner would need to pay a fee to >>>>>> Valve >>>>>> in addition to signing a contract which ideally would be negotiated >>>>>> through >>>>>> some members of the community and Valve directly. >>>>>> >>>>>> The contract would ensure a quality of server for public players to >>>>>> join, with the overall intention of being allowed to use that server as a >>>>>> gateway to the "true community" servers should a user want to explore >>>>>> more. >>>>>> >>>>>> The reasoning: >>>>>> TF2 is a mess, which has been brought up here many times before with >>>>>> no progress. I recently attempted to play through some of the Jungle >>>>>> Inferno contracts when they were first available only to find most Valve >>>>>> servers are horrible quality. >>>>>> >>>>>> I consistently ran into rampant racism, players getting kicked / >>>>>> punished for trying to play the objective, trolling, flaming, so on and >>>>>> so >>>>>> forth. There are also hackers but that is its own mess right now. The >>>>>> game >>>>>> itself sees spikes in player activity that fades away in time, leading to >>>>>> the assumption that players come back to see the new things and get >>>>>> turned >>>>>> off again. >>>>>> >>>>>> A large portion of my community have said they only play TF2 in said >>>>>> community, and if they had Valve servers as their only option, would >>>>>> cease >>>>>> playing the game entirely. >>>>>> >>>>>> In addition, I and a number of my peers feel that this quality being >>>>>> presented to your average player is simply unacceptable when the >>>>>> alternative in the past commonly was a well moderated community server >>>>>> that >>>>>> encouraged consistent members, friendships, and play. >>>>>> >>>>>> However having done some of these contracts, I also understand the >>>>>> concern that anyone could pop up a server and rig the system in their >>>>>> favor, which has been done in the past. This is why I and others feel >>>>>> that >>>>>> a fee along with a contract that could penalize bad actors would benefit >>>>>> the TF2 community overall as well as Valve. >>>>>> >>>>>> Someone even proposed that this system in CS:GO could allow for >>>>>> community run 128 tick servers which have been sought after for years, >>>>>> another example of a possible mutual benefit. >>>>>> >>>>>> The pros: >>>>>> -Better moderation would allow for true hackers, trolls, and other >>>>>> riff-raff to not bother otherwise innocent players >>>>>> -Better handling of situations like the heavy over-healing being left >>>>>> on a weekend >>>>>> -Community servers flourish friendships, which lead to people staying >>>>>> in the game longer and learning at a better rate than they would from a >>>>>> community server >>>>>> -The above has benefits to the pro/comp TF2 community which has been >>>>>> consistently dying off / running out of fresh talent since the start of >>>>>> quickplay. >>>>>> >>>>>> The cons: >>>>>> -Punishment for bad actors would be important, and would depend on >>>>>> the rules that would be set in place. >>>>>> -While a "official" server should be limited in mods, it is important >>>>>> that a community run server at least have access to proper moderation >>>>>> tools >>>>>> with Sourcemod, and at least a chat ad system for helping direct >>>>>> potential >>>>>> players to their other servers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Final notes: >>>>>> This is being presented as is, however I am welcome to discussion and >>>>>> debate. It should be noted that in the past, this mailing list has >>>>>> devolved >>>>>> to pessimism and otherwise unhelpful discussion. I extend this offer of >>>>>> discussion to Valve directly, either by email personally or a discussion >>>>>> in >>>>>> the servers.tf discord channel. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for reading, have a pleasant day. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *Matthew (Rowedahelicon) Robinson* >>>>>> Web Designer / Artist / Writer >>>>>> Website - http://www.rowedahelicon.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Regards, 404: User Not Found >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > > -- > Tee hee hee hee > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > -- Regards, 404: User Not Found
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