I’m sorry, in my last posting the link was incorrect. The correct link to the composition is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9a7pS3yqwI <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9a7pS3yqwI>
Right now, I’m listening to the song. Please listen to the song at the 8:48 time-scale of the video. You’ll here “iti vathathi” … Thanks and regards, rajam > Begin forwarded message: > > From: rajam via INDOLOGY <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit > Date: November 13, 2022 at 1:30:40 PM PST > To: Matthew Kapstein <[email protected]> > Cc: Indology List <[email protected]> > Reply-To: rajam <[email protected]> > > Right on Target!!! > > I was going to say a few words about the direct equivalence between the > Sanskrit “iti” and Tamil “eṉ”. > > 1. In Sangam Literature, the “eṉ” is very productive; manifests in all > possible forms of a language. > > 2. In subsequent texts, such as the 'Twin Epics — cilappatikāram and > maṇimēkalai’ as many have noted them, every chapter (long verse/canto) ends > with the word “eṉ.” > > 3. In Classical Carnatic Music, there’s a beautiful composition by > Thulasidaas (Gopala Gokula) in which we hear at the end of the verse, “iti > vathathi …” . If you’re interested, please hear : > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzyndQ91-Ho > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzyndQ91-Ho> > > ++++++++++ > > So, I take “iti” or “eṉ” as a 'wrapper morpheme’ or a ‘summarizer’ of what > has been said thus far. > > Thanks and regards, > —rajam > > >> On Nov 13, 2022, at 12:41 PM, Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Friends, >> >> I have not read all the useful references you have mentioned, so forgive me >> if I am bringing coals to Newcastle. But I recall that in Pāli and BHS texts >> ´ti is ubiquitous at the end of verses. Might not the MIA angle be worth >> exploring ? (And please forgive my ignorance if there is well-known work >> that does this already. ) >> >> Matthew Kapstein >> EPHE, Paris >> >> Sent from Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> >> From: INDOLOGY <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of George L. HART >> via INDOLOGY <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2022 8:12:25 PM >> To: Indology List <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit >> >> V.S. Rajam’s book is an essential one for students of classical Tamil, >> covering syntax, meter, morphology, etc. What I meant is that to my >> knowledge no one has made a substantial study of every use of eṉ in Sangam >> literature. Such a study might include uses of iti in early Sanskrit. For >> example, in modern Tamil we often find ēṉ eṉṟāl, “If you ask why,” which >> corresponds exactly to Sanskrit "kuta iti cet.” One wonders how old this >> usage is in both languages. George Hart >> >>> On Nov 12, 2022, at 6:07 PM, rajam <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear List Members, >>> >>> George Hart said: >>> >>> /// I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which has >>> equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for example), is >>> far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in various forms — >>> adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. >>> eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be >>> interesting to analyze the uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure >>> anyone has done this. /// >>> >>> Just to kindle your memory … >>> >>> Please look into my book “A Reference Grammar of Classical Tamil Poetry, >>> V.S. Rajam, American Philosophical Society, 1992” >>> >>> Thanks and regards, >>> V.S. Rajam >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Nov 12, 2022, at 12:54 PM, George L. HART via INDOLOGY >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which has >>>> equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for example), is >>>> far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in various forms — >>>> adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. >>>> eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be >>>> interesting to analyze the uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure >>>> anyone has done this. Of course, the use of this construction could be an >>>> areal phenomenon — it is not necessarily true that its presence in early >>>> Sanskrit is due to Dravidian, though I think it is highly likely, given >>>> its richness in Dravidian languages. George Hart >>>> >>>>> On Nov 12, 2022, at 1:08 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. (Herman) via INDOLOGY >>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I do not know if the question was about iti as an areal phenomenon. If >>>>> so, see F.B.J. Kuiper, "The Genesis of a Linguistic Area", IIJ 1968, >>>>> where, if I remember well, he compares Skt iti with Tamil eṉṟu. >>>>> Herman >>>>> >>>>> Herman Tieken >>>>> Stationsweg 58 >>>>> 2515 BP Den Haag >>>>> The Netherlands >>>>> 00 31 (0)70 2208127 >>>>> website: hermantieken.com <http://hermantieken.com/> >>>>> Van: INDOLOGY <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> namens Madhav Deshpande via >>>>> INDOLOGY <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>> Verzonden: zaterdag 12 november 2022 17:34 >>>>> Aan: Olivelle, Joseph P <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>> CC: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>> Onderwerp: Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit >>>>> >>>>> If I remember correctly, the possibility of the "iti" constructions being >>>>> an areal phenomena have been discussed for many decades. The best person >>>>> to provide information regarding this topic may be Hans Hock. I will see >>>>> if I can locate any of these older publications. >>>>> >>>>> Madhav M. Deshpande >>>>> Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics >>>>> University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA >>>>> Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies >>>>> Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, >>>>> India >>>>> >>>>> [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 6:28 AM Olivelle, Joseph P via INDOLOGY >>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> See the many explanations of ‘iti’ in Gary Tubb and Emery Boose’s book >>>>> “Scholastic Sanskrit”. >>>>> >>>>> Patrick >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:10 AM, Brendan S. Gillon, Prof. via INDOLOGY >>>>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > Dear colleagues, >>>>> > >>>>> > I am wondering if any of you know of articles on the use of `iti' in >>>>> > Sanskrit. >>>>> > >>>>> > Best wishes, >>>>> > >>>>> > Brendan >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > >>>>> > Brendan S. Gillon email: [email protected] >>>>> > <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> > Department of Linguistics >>>>> > McGill University tel.: 001 514 398 4868 >>>>> > 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield >>>>> > Montreal, Quebec fax.: 001 514 398 7088 >>>>> > H3A 1A7 CANADA >>>>> > >>>>> > webpage: >>>>> > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.mcgill.ca%2Fstaff%2Fgroup3%2Fbgillo%2Fweb%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C40005a48e3d64c7af97308dac4b84054%7C31d7e2a5bdd8414e9e97bea998ebdfe1%7C0%7C0%7C638038592882519039%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHfWYYtZKaf%2FjbNNUQwJhnoaLp8V7WAqPSZGcXaH2xU%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> > >>>>> > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.mcgill.ca%2Fstaff%2Fgroup3%2Fbgillo%2Fweb%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ch.j.h.tieken%40hum.leidenuniv.nl%7C295db7e7b8714862742908dac4cbed9c%7Cca2a7f76dbd74ec091086b3d524fb7c8%7C0%7C0%7C638038677398630127%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yyUoPrr6Ns2Gi1p2wTJO5kICrdegnoY5Ox6uJigVykk%3D&reserved=0> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=05%7C01%7C%7C40005a48e3d64c7af97308dac4b84054%7C31d7e2a5bdd8414e9e97bea998ebdfe1%7C0%7C0%7C638038592882519039%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GhfFm1DiIXicrk1S%2Fzv%2F6so6YoU5TCCdm0kHp6esElI%3D&reserved=0 >>>>> > >>>>> > <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=05%7C01%7Ch.j.h.tieken%40hum.leidenuniv.nl%7C295db7e7b8714862742908dac4cbed9c%7Cca2a7f76dbd74ec091086b3d524fb7c8%7C0%7C0%7C638038677398630127%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wsgOjkowtEL%2FaruE2IcKVJP181LGzqIrImXVewIbXaM%3D&reserved=0> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >>>>> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=05%7C01%7Ch.j.h.tieken%40hum.leidenuniv.nl%7C295db7e7b8714862742908dac4cbed9c%7Cca2a7f76dbd74ec091086b3d524fb7c8%7C0%7C0%7C638038677398630127%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wsgOjkowtEL%2FaruE2IcKVJP181LGzqIrImXVewIbXaM%3D&reserved=0> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >>>>> <https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> INDOLOGY mailing list >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >>>> <https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > [email protected] > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
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