Dear All, On a related topic, does anyone know of recent work on quotative *uitī, *the Avestan not-quite cognate of *iti* (via <*u-ti instead)?
Best, Caley On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 5:17 AM Jean-Luc Chevillard < [email protected]> wrote: > Greetings, > > the 2004 paper of mine cited by Andrew is freely available online here > > https://books.openedition.org/ifp/7801 > > « Ideophones in Tamil: a Historical Perspective on the X-eṉal > expressives (Olikkuṟippu Āṟṟuppaṭai) » > > Best wishes > > அன்புடன் > > -- Jean-Luc > > https://htl.cnrs.fr/equipe/jl-chevillard/ > > > > On 13/11/2022 22:32, Andrew Ollett via INDOLOGY wrote: > > Since Matthew mentioned MIA, I suppose I can share this presentation on > > clausal complements in Middle Indic, which also contains some > > observations on the use of iti in Sanskrit (and eṉ- and its cognates in > > Dravidian languages): > > > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6kq9y55x3oj6k8/presentation.pdf?dl=0 > > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6kq9y55x3oj6k8/presentation.pdf?dl=0> > > > > This is a talk I gave at Chicago in 2018. The work is still unpublished. > > > > Andrew > > > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:26 PM Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY > > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote: > > > > Indology list archive is a valuable repository of knowledge. But the > > lack of proper search facility makes the information as good as lost > > and we have to repeat questions/discussions that are already in the > > archive. See > > https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2015-July/041594.html > > <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2015-July/041594.html>. > If a good search feature is enabled, all the past discussions will become > accessible.____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Regards,____ > > > > Palaniappan____ > > > > __ __ > > > > __ __ > > > > *From: *INDOLOGY <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Indology > > List <[email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]>> > > *Reply-To: *"George L. HART" <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *Date: *Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 1:12 PM > > *To: *Indology List <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit____ > > > > __ __ > > > > V.S. Rajam’s book is an essential one for students of classical > > Tamil, covering syntax, meter, morphology, etc. What I meant is that > > to my knowledge no one has made a substantial study of every use of > > eṉ in Sangam literature. Such a study might include uses of iti in > > early Sanskrit. For example, in modern Tamil we often find ēṉ eṉṟāl, > > “If you ask why,” which corresponds exactly to Sanskrit "kuta iti > > cet.” One wonders how old this usage is in both languages. George > > Hart____ > > > > > > > > ____ > > > > On Nov 12, 2022, at 6:07 PM, rajam <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Dear List Members, ____ > > > > __ __ > > > > George Hart said: ____ > > > > __ __ > > > > /// I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which > > has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for > > example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in > > various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), > > finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in Sanskrit iti is only > > adverbial. It would be interesting to analyze the uses of eṉ in > > Sangam literature — I’m not sure anyone has done this. /// ____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Just to kindle your memory … ____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Please look into my book “A Reference Grammar of Classical Tamil > > Poetry, V.S. Rajam, American Philosophical Society, 1992” ____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Thanks and regards,____ > > > > V.S. Rajam ____ > > > > __ __ > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > > ____ > > > > On Nov 12, 2022, at 12:54 PM, George L. HART via INDOLOGY > > <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____ > > > > __ __ > > > > I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which > > has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, > > for example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It > > occurs in various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), > > noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in > > Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be interesting to > > analyze the uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure > > anyone has done this. Of course, the use of this > > construction could be an areal phenomenon — it is not > > necessarily true that its presence in early Sanskrit is due > > to Dravidian, though I think it is highly likely, given its > > richness in Dravidian languages. George Hart____ > > > > > > > > ____ > > > > On Nov 12, 2022, at 1:08 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. (Herman) via > > INDOLOGY <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____ > > > > __ __ > > > > I do not know if the question was about /iti/as an areal > > phenomenon. If so, see F.B.J. Kuiper, "The Genesis of a > > Linguistic Area", IIJ 1968, where, if I remember well, > > he compares Skt/iti/ with Tamil/eṉṟu/.____ > > > > Herman____ > > > > __ __ > > > > Herman Tieken____ > > > > Stationsweg 58____ > > > > 2515 BP Den Haag____ > > > > The Netherlands____ > > > > 00 31 (0)70 2208127____ > > > > website:hermantieken.com <http://hermantieken.com/>____ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *Van:*INDOLOGY <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> namens > > Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > > <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *Verzonden:*zaterdag 12 november 2022 17:34 > > *Aan:*Olivelle, Joseph P <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *CC:*[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>< > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *Onderwerp:*Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit____ > > > > ____ > > > > If I remember correctly, the possibility of the "iti" > > constructions being an areal phenomena have been > > discussed for many decades. The best person to provide > > information regarding this topic may be Hans Hock. I > > will see if I can locate any of these older > > publications.____ > > > > > > ____ > > > > Madhav M. Deshpande____ > > > > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics____ > > > > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA____ > > > > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies____ > > > > Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced > > Studies, Bangalore, India____ > > > > __ __ > > > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]____ > > > > __ __ > > > > __ __ > > > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 6:28 AM Olivelle, Joseph P via > > INDOLOGY <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____ > > > > See the many explanations of ‘iti’ in Gary Tubb and > > Emery Boose’s book “Scholastic Sanskrit”. > > > > Patrick > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:10 AM, Brendan S. Gillon, > Prof. via INDOLOGY <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > > > I am wondering if any of you know of articles on > the use of `iti' in > > > Sanskrit. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Brendan > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Brendan S. Gillon > email:[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > Department of Linguistics > > > McGill University tel.: 001 > 514 398 4868 > > > 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield > > > Montreal, Quebec fax.: 001 > 514 398 7088 > > > H3A 1A7 CANADA > > > > > > webpage: > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.mcgill.ca%2Fstaff%2Fgroup3%2Fbgillo%2Fweb%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C40005a48e3d64c7af97308dac4b84054%7C31d7e2a5bdd8414e9e97bea998ebdfe1%7C0%7C0%7C638038592882519039%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SHfWYYtZKaf%2FjbNNUQwJhnoaLp8V7WAqPSZGcXaH2xU%3D&reserved=0 > < > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwebpages.mcgill.ca%2Fstaff%2Fgroup3%2Fbgillo%2Fweb%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ch.j.h.tieken%40hum.leidenuniv.nl%7C295db7e7b8714862742908dac4cbed9c%7Cca2a7f76dbd74ec091086b3d524fb7c8%7C0%7C0%7C638038677398630127%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yyUoPrr6Ns2Gi1p2wTJO5kICrdegnoY5Ox6uJigVykk%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > >[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=05%7C01%7C%7C40005a48e3d64c7af97308dac4b84054%7C31d7e2a5bdd8414e9e97bea998ebdfe1%7C0%7C0%7C638038592882519039%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GhfFm1DiIXicrk1S%2Fzv%2F6so6YoU5TCCdm0kHp6esElI%3D&reserved=0 > < > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=05%7C01%7Ch.j.h.tieken%40hum.leidenuniv.nl%7C295db7e7b8714862742908dac4cbed9c%7Cca2a7f76dbd74ec091086b3d524fb7c8%7C0%7C0%7C638038677398630127%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wsgOjkowtEL%2FaruE2IcKVJP181LGzqIrImXVewIbXaM%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology > > < > https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=05%7C01%7Ch.j.h.tieken%40hum.leidenuniv.nl%7C295db7e7b8714862742908dac4cbed9c%7Cca2a7f76dbd74ec091086b3d524fb7c8%7C0%7C0%7C638038677398630127%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wsgOjkowtEL%2FaruE2IcKVJP181LGzqIrImXVewIbXaM%3D&reserved=0 > >____ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology > > <https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology > >____ > > > > __ __ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]> > > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology > > <https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology>____ > > > > __ __ > > > > __ __ > > > > _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing > > list [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology > > <https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology> ____ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology > > <https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > INDOLOGY mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > [email protected] > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >
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