Hi, Caley, The paper that I attached to my message of 13 November contains some discussion of Avest. uiti, as well as late Avest. iθa.
If anyone on the list knows of more recent discussion(s), I’d appreciate getting the reference(s) or, better yet, an e-copy. Cheers, Hans Henrich On 15 Nov2022, at 09:07, Caley Smith via INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear All, On a related topic, does anyone know of recent work on quotative uitī, the Avestan not-quite cognate of iti (via <*u-ti instead)? Best, Caley On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 5:17 AM Jean-Luc Chevillard <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Greetings, the 2004 paper of mine cited by Andrew is freely available online here https://books.openedition.org/ifp/7801<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://books.openedition.org/ifp/7801__;!!DZ3fjg!-CIRqN3dibTyr_mp8oY8Z6adrzFrJZe_BIQPVVtcHRrcMUgYf5Nnn69icKLmj6iXSxMxmNWwEULvAjUUIbIan382zn73$> « Ideophones in Tamil: a Historical Perspective on the X-eṉal expressives (Olikkuṟippu Āṟṟuppaṭai) » Best wishes அன்புடன் -- Jean-Luc https://htl.cnrs.fr/equipe/jl-chevillard/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://htl.cnrs.fr/equipe/jl-chevillard/__;!!DZ3fjg!-CIRqN3dibTyr_mp8oY8Z6adrzFrJZe_BIQPVVtcHRrcMUgYf5Nnn69icKLmj6iXSxMxmNWwEULvAjUUIbIan4LGyWr7$> On 13/11/2022 22:32, Andrew Ollett via INDOLOGY wrote: > Since Matthew mentioned MIA, I suppose I can share this presentation on > clausal complements in Middle Indic, which also contains some > observations on the use of iti in Sanskrit (and eṉ- and its cognates in > Dravidian languages): > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6kq9y55x3oj6k8/presentation.pdf?dl=0<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6kq9y55x3oj6k8/presentation.pdf?dl=0__;!!DZ3fjg!-CIRqN3dibTyr_mp8oY8Z6adrzFrJZe_BIQPVVtcHRrcMUgYf5Nnn69icKLmj6iXSxMxmNWwEULvAjUUIbIan6xbMN5b$> > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6kq9y55x3oj6k8/presentation.pdf?dl=0<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6kq9y55x3oj6k8/presentation.pdf?dl=0__;!!DZ3fjg!-CIRqN3dibTyr_mp8oY8Z6adrzFrJZe_BIQPVVtcHRrcMUgYf5Nnn69icKLmj6iXSxMxmNWwEULvAjUUIbIan6xbMN5b$>> > > This is a talk I gave at Chicago in 2018. The work is still unpublished. > > Andrew > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:26 PM Sudalaimuthu Palaniappan via INDOLOGY > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > wrote: > > Indology list archive is a valuable repository of knowledge. But the > lack of proper search facility makes the information as good as lost > and we have to repeat questions/discussions that are already in the > archive. See > > https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2015-July/041594.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2015-July/041594.html__;!!DZ3fjg!-CIRqN3dibTyr_mp8oY8Z6adrzFrJZe_BIQPVVtcHRrcMUgYf5Nnn69icKLmj6iXSxMxmNWwEULvAjUUIbIan5dZdnmm$> > > <https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2015-July/041594.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://list.indology.info/pipermail/indology/2015-July/041594.html__;!!DZ3fjg!-CIRqN3dibTyr_mp8oY8Z6adrzFrJZe_BIQPVVtcHRrcMUgYf5Nnn69icKLmj6iXSxMxmNWwEULvAjUUIbIan5dZdnmm$>>. > If a good search feature is enabled, all the past discussions will become > accessible.____ > > __ __ > > Regards,____ > > Palaniappan____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > *From: *INDOLOGY > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > on behalf of Indology > List <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > *Reply-To: *"George L. HART" > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > *Date: *Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 1:12 PM > *To: *Indology List > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > *Subject: *Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit____ > > __ __ > > V.S. Rajam’s book is an essential one for students of classical > Tamil, covering syntax, meter, morphology, etc. What I meant is that > to my knowledge no one has made a substantial study of every use of > eṉ in Sangam literature. Such a study might include uses of iti in > early Sanskrit. For example, in modern Tamil we often find ēṉ eṉṟāl, > “If you ask why,” which corresponds exactly to Sanskrit "kuta iti > cet.” One wonders how old this usage is in both languages. George > Hart____ > > > > ____ > > On Nov 12, 2022, at 6:07 PM, rajam > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:____ > > __ __ > > Dear List Members, ____ > > __ __ > > George Hart said: ____ > > __ __ > > /// I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which > has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, for > example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It occurs in > various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), noun (eṉpatu), > finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in Sanskrit iti is only > adverbial. It would be interesting to analyze the uses of eṉ in > Sangam literature — I’m not sure anyone has done this. /// ____ > > __ __ > > Just to kindle your memory … ____ > > __ __ > > Please look into my book “A Reference Grammar of Classical Tamil > Poetry, V.S. Rajam, American Philosophical Society, 1992” ____ > > __ __ > > Thanks and regards,____ > > V.S. Rajam ____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > > > ____ > > On Nov 12, 2022, at 12:54 PM, George L. HART via INDOLOGY > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > wrote:____ > > __ __ > > I am sure many have noted that in Tamil, the word eṉ, which > has equivalents in other Dravidian languages (an in Telugu, > for example), is far more productive than Sanskrit iti. It > occurs in various forms — adjective (eṉṉum), adverb (eṉṟu), > noun (eṉpatu), finite verb (e.g. eṉkiṟārkaḷ), while in > Sanskrit iti is only adverbial. It would be interesting to > analyze the uses of eṉ in Sangam literature — I’m not sure > anyone has done this. Of course, the use of this > construction could be an areal phenomenon — it is not > necessarily true that its presence in early Sanskrit is due > to Dravidian, though I think it is highly likely, given its > richness in Dravidian languages. George Hart____ > > > > ____ > > On Nov 12, 2022, at 1:08 PM, Tieken, H.J.H. (Herman) via > INDOLOGY > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > wrote:____ > > __ __ > > I do not know if the question was about /iti/as an areal > phenomenon. If so, see F.B.J. Kuiper, "The Genesis of a > Linguistic Area", IIJ 1968, where, if I remember well, > he compares Skt/iti/ with Tamil/eṉṟu/.____ > > Herman____ > > __ __ > > Herman Tieken____ > > Stationsweg 58____ > > 2515 BP Den Haag____ > > The Netherlands____ > > 00 31 (0)70 2208127____ > > > website:hermantieken.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://hermantieken.com__;!!DZ3fjg!-CIRqN3dibTyr_mp8oY8Z6adrzFrJZe_BIQPVVtcHRrcMUgYf5Nnn69icKLmj6iXSxMxmNWwEULvAjUUIbIan_CyjtRZ$> > > <http://hermantieken.com/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://hermantieken.com/__;!!DZ3fjg!-CIRqN3dibTyr_mp8oY8Z6adrzFrJZe_BIQPVVtcHRrcMUgYf5Nnn69icKLmj6iXSxMxmNWwEULvAjUUIbIan57ImphZ$>>____ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *Van:*INDOLOGY > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > namens > Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY > > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > *Verzonden:*zaterdag 12 november 2022 17:34 > *Aan:*Olivelle, Joseph P > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > > *CC:*[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>><[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > *Onderwerp:*Re: [INDOLOGY] iti in Sanskrit____ > > ____ > > If I remember correctly, the possibility of the "iti" > constructions being an areal phenomena have been > discussed for many decades. The best person to provide > information regarding this topic may be Hans Hock. I > will see if I can locate any of these older > publications.____ > > > ____ > > Madhav M. Deshpande____ > > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics____ > > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA____ > > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies____ > > Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced > Studies, Bangalore, India____ > > __ __ > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA]____ > > __ __ > > __ __ > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 6:28 AM Olivelle, Joseph P via > INDOLOGY > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > wrote:____ > > See the many explanations of ‘iti’ in Gary Tubb and > Emery Boose’s book “Scholastic Sanskrit”. > > Patrick > > > > > > On Nov 12, 2022, at 8:10 AM, Brendan S. Gillon, Prof. > via INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > wrote: > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > I am wondering if any of you know of articles on the > use of `iti' in > > Sanskrit. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Brendan > > > > -- > > > > Brendan S. Gillon > email:[email protected]<mailto:email%[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > > Department of Linguistics > > McGill University tel.: 001 514 > 398 4868 > > 1085, Avenue Docteur-Penfield > > Montreal, Quebec fax.: 001 514 > 398 7088 > > H3A 1A7 CANADA > > > > > 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