Colin, I can see that you and I just aren't going to agree on this, but oh, well, that's OK. You just don't understand where I'm coming from.
You said something about "God has to punish someone". You are confusing forgiveness of sin with expiation of sin. God forgives sins, yes, but there also must be a price to pay. eg, even if a criminal is sorry, he still has to serve his time. God is a forgiving and merciful God, yes, but He is also a God of Justice. EVen writing this, I know you still won't understand. One of the reasons I do not like philosophy much is that it destroys faith. Man just HAS to try and explain and understand everything - but you can't. No more than my dog can understand how it is suddenly light when I flick a lightswitch. Maybe I am lucky, in the I have seen miracles. We will all understand one day, though. Some of the christian prophets today (yes people still prophesy) speak of a time of trial coming soon called the 'mini-judgement' in which everyone on earth will see themselves as God sees them. This is because God doesn't want anyone to perish - he wants everyone to have a chance. I know you will probably poo-poo this idea, too, but thats OK :) As far as Vince and the Pope Pius thing - I think you can only judge whether something is true or not by the effect it has on others. eg, 'you can only judge a tree by it's fruit'. Would the New York Times have written in 1941 - "The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas.... He is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all." if Pius were 'Hitlers Pope'? Would Golda Meir, later a prime minister of Israel, and leaders of Jewish communities in Hungary, Turkey, Italy, Romania and the United States have thanked the pope for saving hundreds of thousands of Jews? No. Would Einstein have written in December 23, 1940 issue of Time magazine on page 38, "Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks... Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly."? Would the charity and work of Pope Pius XII during World War II have so impressed the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli, that in 1944 he became a Catholic? He also changed his name to Israel Eugenio Zolli, Eugenio being the Pope's name. As I said, none of these people (and MANY more) would have said or done these things if the pope had been "Hitler's Pope". You can only judge history by it's effect on people. Vince, you claim to have a shelf full of books on the subject, but I think only from one point of view. You read what you want to read, and who wouldn't? But the evidence is out there, plenty of it, to say that Pope was the only world leader to speak out against Hitler, and who saved more Jews than Schindler. I only ask that you please look into the information from the other point of view before making up your mind. Joseph. http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies - What's on at your local cinema?
