Les, thank you so much for posing this question!
In the last few weeks, I have become really worried about the list. It did
not feel good any more. So much personal sniping, so much impersonal
posting of endless articles, so much point scoring... Like many who replied
to you still believe, I also used to think it would sort itself out. But
then when I found out that many were leaving the NJC list, I knew this was
different.
How can we have a proper NJC list without Bob Mueller's messages about
Steely Dan, or without Bob Murphy's sense of humour? Will we just be left
with a political list? For goodness sake, see the list of topics that Mark
(so nice to see you back, Mark!) gave that he asked to be copied on while he
was on Joni-only! This is crazy, he should be on the NJC list and not have
to hide from the barrage of arguments on this NJC list!
I do understand Colin and many others pleading for "no rules and no
censorship", I feel that would be the ideal too, but I fear, as some others
said, that this list will not always automatically recover from everything.
Yes, it may survive, but as what? When all the Bobs and Marks and Magses
are gone, what will we be left with?
Maybe, like any human community, we do need a few laws.
I am not pleading for a list without politics. I was one of those arguing
against a separate "political" list, because that way we would draw such a
drastic line that we (those left on the general list) would lose too much.
Politics are part of our life, why partition it off? And then, do we allow
circumcision or abortion or any other topics? The diversity of subjects has
been wonderful on this list, we've all learnt and laughed so much, we need
to find a way to preserve it!
I totally agree with what most people have said: self discipline is crucial.
What I mean is this:
1) People should be able to make their point, but this endless hammering
with more arguments (and this has definitely happened both ways!) is not in
the spirit of a friendly chat. Ditto for just posting long articles. I'm
sure there must be political debating lists for that, if that's what you
want. And maybe they hold elections that can award you scores depending on
how good your quote or argument is!
2) I love good arguments myself, but it is crazy to expect that anyone is
going to "win the argument". If we try to do that, we end up inevitably
hitting out at others and becoming personal. There have been some terrible
personal attacks, with the attacker always believing that they were doing it
for the right reason, that they had the truth behind them!
I think that if everybody actively kept this in mind, then we would not have
a problem. But I do think that we cannot be sure that it will happen this
way. So maybe we do need an "emergency procedure", a bit like what we
already have to exclude individuals who go too far with personal attacks
(and I think that a few people should have been given those warnings
recently!).
So Les, I know you need concrete proposals. Doing nothing is also concrete,
and it may cost us too much.
So I will stick my neck out and propose something. It could be further
refined, but I think it has potential.
1. All subjects are allowed (with NJC of course).
2. We all bear in mind (and maybe this should be repeated in an automatic
monthly reminder message) that any posts, political or otherwise, should be
in the spirit of sharing personal feelings and opinions, not of winning a
battle of minds.
3. As and when any particular topic has been running for a good while and
particularly if it is among the same posters, then maybe some "panel" could
decide that it is time to take it off-line. Sorry to sound so bureaucratic,
but I am trying to save Les from playing sole judge or policeman which I
know would be painful for him. I am thinking of a panel made up of, say,
Les, Ashara and the 2 Bobs (M). They are all in the States and so could
contact each other within the same timespan and agree if it's necessary to
send out a message. That message would simply ask for that topic to be
taken off line. This means that the people who want to continue the
conversation make themselves known and continue among themselves.
I know it all sounds a bit unpleasant but I think it could work without too
much bad feeling. Hopefully it will also encourage people to address a lot
more messages off list to begin with, which is something I have always done
and it works well.
Just to end on a positive note: I feel that the various replies you have
received, Les, are an indication of the love we all have for our community,
and I hope so very much that we manage to keep steering it in the right
direction before it drifts off the cliffs somewhere...
Lots of love,
Lieve.
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