It certainly seems that the new limitations of the 1.0 spec have bought
the differences between the scriptlet and tag camps to the surface
again.
I think all involved (even a die-hard scriptlet-er like Dan) can see
that value of the 0.92 tag-based approach in certain situations. I too
am developing a web-based application framework for one of our clients
and I want to delegate as much UI design to them as possible. These
people are not coders, they are FrontPage types - they can handle the
<LOOP> and <DISPLAY> tags without sending them on a Java programming
course.
That said, a lot of the stuff we use internally is done using
scriptlets, because of the sheer power of having access to all of Java
in the page, it's magic. I wouldn't be without it.
So, I'm my opinion, one of the main advantages of JSP is the ability to
use either or both of these methods as appropriate. If JavaSoft was
planning to "deprecate" either of these techniques, I would complain
long and hard and be very dissappointed.
<whinge>
The fact that they releases a "half-baked" implementation in 1.0 is
pretty dissapointing. We waited a long time for 1.0, only to find we
have to wait for 1.1 to recover functionality that we already had in
0.92, albiet with a much more consistent syntactic expression.
The fact that they have provided basically no information of where the
JSP development model is heading is even more dissappointing. Sometimes
I think they just don't get it with this group. We need information
</whinge>
Anyway, I communicated this to the feedback group and received a fairly
prompt reply, which I have included below for the benefit of the group.
I think JSP is a great technology and despite all my complaining, I will
eagerly await the tag extension mechanism in 1.1 that I am lead to
believe will re-instate the <LOOP> style construct.
Once again, it would be nice to here direct from the (Sun) source on
this specific issue !
Regards
Drew
--- Reply From JavaSoft
Hi Drew, thanks for your comments.
We are working on a white paper to be available no later than JavaOne.
At J1 there will also be a talk on the Application Model for J2EE which
will
explain (among others) how to use JSP and Servlets within the Java 2
Enterprise Edition platform. There will be talks at J1 that will
explain
more about the JSP and Servlets, including how they can be used outside
of
J2EE, including things like Authentication. We should provide a
document on
this ApplicationModel for JSP 1.0 and JSP 1.1; at this point we are
tight on
time and resources and I do not want to make promises, but we will see
what
we can do.
Do not wait for JSP 1.1; JSP 1.0 provides enough functionality to let
you
write Web Applications.
Hope this helps,
- eduard/o
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Fesler [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, 7 May 1999 10:56
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: The horror of moving from 0.92 to 1.0
>
> > Sorry to read about your pain, but I actually prefer the new
> > code!
>
> You know what? As a Java programmer, *I* prefer the scripted code too.
> No
> proprietary junk, more control (I mean, what if I wanted to loop
> backwards?
> I'd be hosed if I were using LOOP) -- it's just plain better.
> Unfortunately
> (well, fortunately, actually ;) I'm not the person writing this stuff
> -- I'm
> writing beans & servlets & my customers (they're not really *my*
> customers,
> btw) are writing UIs that use them. And they are not (by & large, and
> I hope
> none of them are reading this) programmers.
>
> > And if you align the
> > code like you
> > have in your first example, it doesn't look that terrible:
>
> I agree, that's a much better way to align the code, though it still
> obfuscates the braces, which I don't care for. The JSP example code
> (as you
> know, I'm sure) does this:
>
> <TABLE>
> <%
> RowBean[] rows = results.getRows();
> for (int i = 0; i < rows.length; i++) {
> %>
> <TR>
>
> etc.
>
> but I think that's probably worse.
>
> > There are formatting beans out there if you want to move the code
> > generation
> > into a formatting bean. I believe IBM has a number of them. Or you
> could
> > easily write a bean to produce your output.
>
> That's probably the right solution, given the current state of JSP.
> I'm not
> blown away by IBM's JSP beans, but I'll take a closer look -- they
> might do
> the trick. Bottom line, though is this: JSP 1.0 makes it significantly
> more
> difficult for the people who are using my software to create their
> UIs.
>
> chris
>
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