On Thursday 07 August 2008, Amos Shapira wrote: > 2008/8/6 Shlomi Fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sorry I don't see the problem, Shachar as the admin should take care of > > > redirects, DNS etc. > > > > Because I need to see the "existing" (i.e: what used to exist on > > iglu.org.il) resources in front of my eyes and working, before I can > > actually import them to a different location. Otherwise I won't be able > > to see what I'm doing properly. > > Can't you set it up on your own home desktop for that purpose? Even > absolute URL's can be tricked to point to the right content. > Show me what you CAN'T do that way and I'll try to help you work around it.
This will require downloading a whole lot of data (HTML, PHP, Perl, database dumps, etc.) to my host, and then setting it up there only to later upload it to tux.hamakor.org.il again, and then It'd guarantee that it can *never* be restored at iglu.org.il which I don't want. > > > > As for CMS, when using a CMS many people can collaborate on the > > > contents. When using your systems which might be superior over CMS, > > > ONLY you can edit the pages, other people have a steep learning curve > > > before they can use it. > > > > Right, but there's a learning curve for everything: for Linux, for > > MS-Windows, for PHP, for Firefox, for Perl, etc. People should not fear > > learning new things. And most of my tools are easy to learn. > > And useless everywhere else, and therefore any minute wasted learning > them is not a good investment. Yes, it is. You can use them for your own projects. And it's not hard to learn at all. > Shachar says there are already 4 other > people working with the existing system so: > 1. There are already four other people who can help with the content > once it's there. It's not just content - it's meta-data. > 2. They are an example that it's possible to actually learn to use the > system on Hamakor, so you should be able to learn them too. I know how to use it to some extent. > > > In order to use Joomla, people should learn HTML. > > Whatever it is, there are already four other people who can help with > the content without having to learn anything. So? > > > If I were for example to maintain my mailing lists as a few HTML pages on > > Joomla, then they: > > Why should you? Convert the files to whatever format Joomla accepts > once and for all. It's HTML. > > > 1. Would contain a lot of duplicate XHTML markup. > > > > 2. Would be easy to break. > > > > 3. If I want to synchronise them from my copy, then the changes people do > > there would be lost the next time I upload my changes, and people would > > be mad. > > Why would you re-upload your pages? It should be a one-time pipeline > one-liners and awk/sed/find/shell/perl scripting work. Pardon? "awk/sed/find/shell/perl"? What? No, let me explain. Look at: http://opensvn.csie.org/linuxisrael/list-of-mailing-lists/trunk/iglu.org.il/test.pl I have there a group of records such as: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< { 'id' => 'gnubies-il', 'class' => 'egroups', 'group_base' => 'gnubies-il', 'title' => "GNUbies-IL", 'description' => ("Israeli Linux (or UNIX in general) beginners can " . "post their questions here. If you are a " . " Linux beginner please use this mailing-list instead of Linux-IL"), 'guidelines' => ("Anything that is Linux or UNIX related (including " . " newbie questions"), }, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These in turn are converted to HTML files, and a central index, which are much more verbose and contain a lot of duplicacy. For example, the gnubies-il page is: {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd";> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; xml:lang="en-US" lang="en-US"> <head> <title>GNUbies-IL</title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" /> <link rel="stylesheet" href="./style.css" type="text/css" /> </head> <body> <h1>GNUbies-IL</h1> <h2 id="desc">Description</h2> <p> Israeli Linux (or UNIX in general) beginners can post their questions here. If you are a Linux beginner please use this mailing-list instead of Linux-IL </p> <h2 id="post_guidelines">Posting Guidelines</h2> <p> Anything that is Linux or UNIX related (including newbie questions </p> <h2 id="subscribe">Subscribing to the Mailing-List</h2> <p> Send an empty mail message to the following address: </p> <div class="indent"> <p> <a href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a> </p> </div> <h2 id="unsubscribe">Unsubscribing from the Mailing-List</h2> <p> Send an empty mail message to the following address: </p> <div class="indent"> <p> <a href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a> </p> </div> <h2 id="posting">Posting Messages to the Mailing-List</h2> <p> Send your messages to the following address: </p> <div class="indent"> <p> <a href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a> </p> </div> <h2 id="owner">Contacting the Mailing-List's Owner</h2> <p> Send messages to the mailing-list owner to the following address: </p> <div class="indent"> <p> <a href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a> </p> </div> <h2 id="homepage">The Mailing-List's Homepage</h2> <p> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnubies-il/";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnubies-il/</a> </p> <h2 id="archive">Online Messages Archive</h2> <p> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnubies-il/messages/";>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnubies-il/messages/</a> </p> </body> </html> }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Now, I need to maintain only the gnubies-il record, not anything else. And if I were to upload it to Joomla, then I would need to upload the HTML pages as is, with all of their duplicacy. That way I would lose modularity. > > > > Remember many people does not know and are not willing to know any > > > markup language and source code management such as subversion. > > > > Joomla requires you to learn HTML. There you go. > > Four other people already know the web site. There you go. > What does it have to do with anything? More than four people also happen to know Subverion. > > > I suggest you collaborate with someone that can put a CMS such as > > > Drupal or Joomla on iglu.co.il > > > > www.iglu.org.il used to carry PostNuke (which I hate and dislike and > > would like to be replaced with something more decent, like Drupal), and > > MediaWiki and other custom apps. PostNuke is also a CMS. But I need to be > > able to put stuff on www.iglu.org.il so I can see what I'm doing. > > Again - there must be a way to simulate www.iglu.org.il on your local > computer. Every QA/testing/programmer worth his salt does these sort > of simulations on a daily basis so what's the big deal? The big deal is that I'd rather there be something on www.iglu.org.il at least temporarily, than nothing at all. The Israeli community at the moment lacks any web-site in the English language, and www.iglu.org.il used to be pretty decent. I cannot put the stuff there in the www.hamakor.org.il Joomla because it has a Hebrew layout. Then Shachar came and decided that www.iglu.org.il was bad from some reason and took it off the air. I don't see why we shouldn't just restore www.iglu.org.il and let it be this way, but Shachar is stubborn and impossible for me to work with. There used to be an English wiki at http://www.iglu.org.il/wiki/ with a lot of important information, but it too went off the air. Maybe I'll merge it into http://www.hackers.org.il/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page - it's the closes thing we've got. > > > > As for the ugly URL's I understand that in Drupal you can control them > > > so they are not so ugly. > > > > In Joomla too, but I didn't get to it. > > > > > However, I still don't understand why ugly URL's are such a big issue. > > > > Maybe they're not. > > So stop wasting everyone's time on it (I'll tell you the answer - THEY > ARE NOT AN ISSUE) and start converting your content to Joomla. I tried to install the relevant Joomla extensions there now, but turns out I don't have admin rights. Shachar asked me to do it and pointed me at the right direction, so he should make sure I actually can do that (or do it himself). I won't start converting my content to Joomla because Joomla is really not suitable for most of it. Regards, Shlomi Fish ----------------------------------------------------------------- Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ What does "Zionism" mean? - http://xrl.us/bjn8u Shlomi, so what are you working on? Working on a new wiki about unit testing fortunes in freecell? -- Ran Eilam ================================================================= To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
