Au contraire, When this matter was first mooted in this forum several years ago (originally in 2001 I think! - the archives will no doubt exist), I then thought the use of the callichon/mandors (often, incidentally, used as synonyms and here referred to as c/m) unlikely - and, sadly, I remain of this view. In particular: - there was no evidence that Bach employed such instruments; - the work doesn't fit at all well on the c/m - in particular the ominous and distinctive repeated low basses are not always possible on this instrument without many being transposed the octave higher - and thereby loosing much of their affect (just one example: the second half of bar 15). The part fits a bitbetter on the extremely rare c/m with two or three extra free basses filling the gap between the fifth and sixth course tuned a fourth below, but these only to appear by mid-century and significantly after the composition of BWV 245. Granted it doesn't fit on the Dm lute perfectly but, in my view, it fits much better than on the c/m (especially if nominally tuned to a relative Eb - see below). - the c/m was well known in these parts of German speaking lands and would have naturally been referred to by its proper name rather than some generic title. Here is the original - see f.35v. note that it is headed ' Viola d'Amour e Liuto accomp.' [1]https://imslp.nl/imglnks/usimg/3/32/IMSLP508761-PMLP03317-Partitur_D -B_Mus._ms._Bach_P_28.pdf Finally, when I perform this work (most recently with Leeds Baroque under Peter Holman's insightful direction), I employ a 13 course Dm lute tuned a whole tone down from whatever nominal pitch the rest were using. In short the top course to Eb and so on.... Thus the part appears as if in the very comfortable key, for 13 course lute, of F. In the case of Betrache, this greatly helps - the Eb basses can even be fingered as Enat...... Moreover this transcriptional practice also reflects Bach's occasional usage of transposing organ parts which didn't fit with the general band pitch and also, perhaps, with the particularly low pitch necessary on the contemporary large 13 course lute. I only wish it did well fit on the callichon/mandora, but................. rgds MH PS Similarly, I can't recall ever suggesting that Kunau's request to the Thomaschule authorities for two callichons (probably referring to the players necessary as well as to their instruments) was ever granted....... Indeed, as far as I'm aware the request was refused. MH __________________________________________________________________
From: Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> To: Eloy Cruz <eloyc...@gmail.com>; "Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Monday, 19 March 2018, 18:17 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Betrachte meine Seel Playing the bass along with Bach's figuration is a minor challenge but it's entirely possible with a fingered F-sharp and E-natural. As I am sure Martyn Hodgson will point out, the part was not conceived for archlute but rather the mandora or one of its namesakes. I understand that the Italian archlute as we know it was not likely to be present in Bach's Germany. RA __________________________________________________________________ From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of Eloy Cruz <[4]eloyc...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 2:02 PM To: [5]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Betrachte meine Seel Dear list Whenever you play this arioso from Johannes Passion, do you play the bass line along with the obligato part? It's a little awkward as long as it includes both f and f # and e and e flat. Best regards eloy To get on or off this list see list information at [1][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html [2]Lute Mail list technical information www.cs.dartmouth.edu How do I get on the lute mail list? To get on the mail list, send email with a Subject: of "subscribe" to [7]lute-requ...@cs.dartmouth.edu and your name will be added to ... -- References 1. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. https://imslp.nl/imglnks/usimg/3/32/IMSLP508761-PMLP03317-Partitur_D-B_Mus._ms._Bach_P_28.pdf 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:eloyc...@gmail.com 5. mailto:Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. mailto:lute-requ...@cs.dartmouth.edu 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html