We need to very careful of making a false, if tempting, differentiation
between the callichon/gallichon (and numerous cognates) and the
mandora: these generally seem to be one and the same instrument (some
sources clearly say so). Neither can we unequivocally state that the
later eighteenth century nominal E tuning for the first course (rather
than the earlier D) of the c/m is linked to a specific name such as
mandora.
What can be said is that the large, often single stringed, continuo
instrument tuned in nominal A (or rarer B) with a string length in the
high 90 cm was generally referred to as callichon (calchedon, galizona,
etc) and not mandora.
MH
__________________________________________________________________
From: Markus Lutz <mar...@gmlutz.de>
To: "'lute@cs.dartmouth.edu'" <Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Monday, 19 March 2018, 21:11
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Betrachte meine Seel
It is very important to tell between the different instruments.
There are 3 to differ:
1. The colascione, which are long necked instruments with 3 often
single
strings, only used for bass
2. The galizona (gallichon), that was used as bass instrument
especially
by Telemann and played especially the bass lines, but only few chords
(also called theorbo in some sources)
3. The mandora, which was used especially in South of Germany and
Austria for solo and ensemble music, from 1720 on
I'm sure Andreas Schlegel can explain everything in detail.
The terminology is quite confusing, as the terms have been used
differently in different parts of Europe.
The mandore (3.) probably wasn't used as continuo instrument.
Best regards
Markus
Am 19.03.2018 um 21:52 schrieb Ron Andrico:
> Umm, I would rather not have my words rearranged. I meant what I
wrote
> previously.
>
> A quick look at the articles on archlute and on continuo in the
Grove
> online reinforce the accepted premise that the archlute was not
known
> to be present or used for continuo playing in the German states in
the
> 18th century.
>
> In the Grove music online article on Continuo by Peter Williams
and
> David Ledbetter:
> "In the Dresden of Heinichen and Zelenka (c1710â30) the (Catholic)
> court chapel employed a continuo group of two or more cellos,
bassoons,
> violoni and theorbos, though the theorbos fell out of use in the
1730s
> after the arrival of Hasse."
> In the Grove music online article on Mandora by James Tyler:
> "A type of bass lute of the 18th century used for continuo
> accompaniment and solos, particularly in Germanic regions."
> ...
> "Contemporary references to the mandora clearly indicate that it
was
> commonly used for continuo, which makes a great deal of sense
> considering that its pitch and the flexibility afforded by its
tuning
> made it ideal for playing the bass lines of the new musical styles
of
> the late Baroque and early Classical periods. As well as chordal
> continuo accompaniments, it was also used to play single-line
melodic
> basses, as a bassoon or cello would."
> ...
> "In 1709 Johann Kuhnau requested the purchase of a âColocion' for
the
> Thomasschule in Leipzig in order to have more effective bass
support
> for the singers (ibid., 73). Mattheson (op.cit., 277) highly
recommends
> the âcalichon' over the normal lute for continuo support in
chamber
> music, and Telemann wrote two concertos for two flutes and
strings, for
> which the bass lines are marked for âCalchedon' or bassoon."
> RA
>
__________________________________________________________________
>
> From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
on behalf
> of Stephan Olbertz <[3]stephan.olbe...@web.de>
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 8:20 PM
> To: '[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu'
> Cc: '[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu'
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Betrachte meine Seel
>
> Yes, so it should read
> "the part was [very probable] not conceived for archlute but
rather
> [the baroque lute, or possibly even] the mandora [although we have
no
> evidence for the mandora to be used as an obbligato instrument in
> Saxony]"
> Regards
> Stephan
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[[1]mailto:[7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im
> Auftrag von Howard Posner
> Gesendet: Montag, 19. März 2018 20:39
> Cc: [8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Betrachte meine Seel
> The only evidence available about Leipzig in the early 1700s is
that
> the mandora/gallichon was the commonly used lute continuo
instrument.
> Bach's predecessor as thomaschule cantor, johann kuhnau, asked the
town
> council for money to buy a couple of them so he wouldn't have to
keep
> borrowing them. Somebody, probably mr. Hodgson, has pointed out
> secondary sources that say the request was granted, though the
sources
> on which they rely aren't clear on the point.
> Is anyone aware of evidence for archlutes in 18th-century Saxony?
> Sent from my iPhone
> > On Mar 19, 2018, at 12:07, Stephan Olbertz
<[9]stephan.olbe...@web.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ron,
> >
> > " the part was not conceived for
> > archlute but rather the mandora or one of its namesakes"
> >
> > Do you have any evidence for this? (As I am sure Martyn would
> ask...)
> >
> > Regards
> > Stephan
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: [10]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
[[2]mailto:[11]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]
> Im
> > Auftrag von Ron Andrico
> > Gesendet: Montag, 19. März 2018 19:15
> > An: Eloy Cruz; [12]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Betrachte meine Seel
> >
> > Playing the bass along with Bach's figuration is a minor
challenge
> but
> > it's entirely possible with a fingered F-sharp and E-natural.
As I
> am
> > sure Martyn Hodgson will point out, the part was not conceived
for
> > archlute but rather the mandora or one of its namesakes. I
> understand
> > that the Italian archlute as we know it was not likely to be
> present in
> > Bach's Germany.
> >
> > RA
> >
> __________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [3][13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
> --
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[14]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 2. mailto:[15]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> 3. [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--
Markus Lutz
SchulstraÃe 11
88422 Bad Buchau
Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89
Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90
Mail [17]mar...@gmlutz.de
Virus-free. [18]www.avast.com
--
References
Visible links
1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:stephan.olbe...@web.de
4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
8. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
9. mailto:stephan.olbe...@web.de
10. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
11. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
12. mailto:Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
14. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
15. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
17. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de
18.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
Hidden links:
20.
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
21.
file://localhost/net/ifs-users/lute-arc/L20686-2937TMP.html#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2
