[Mifnet 🛰 73611] Re: Who Pays for ATC?

Tue, 12 Aug 2025 09:41:24 -0700 

 Norman Mineta 
Mariette Sohns 


    Op dinsdag 12 augustus 2025 om 16:57:26 CEST schreef Steve McBrien via 
Mifnet <[email protected]>:  
 
 In what feels like a million years ago I was honored to serve on Norm 
Minetta's panel that was looking at some of this stuff.  I got to meet Bob 
Poole at the time, and have enjoyed reading his posts on the Mifnet since then.
Back then the biz jet guys presented the same (misleading) arguments To 
Manetta's panel that I see here as to why they shouldn't pay the same for ATC 
services as the commercial guys.  Saying that they don't use the same airports 
is incredibly misleading.  As an example, the "small" airports (e.g.,Teterboro, 
Westchester, White Plains, Republic, and Long Island) in the NYC area use the 
same airspace as the big guys from LGA, JFK, and EWR.  Bob P. had it right all 
those years ago, he still has it right.
Steve McBrien
On Tue, Aug 12, 2025 at 8:00 AM RWM--- via Mifnet <[email protected]> 
wrote:

Stirred the hornets’ nest, apparently.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2025-08-11/nbaa-disputes-nyt-video-calling-faa-funding-changes
- Bob Mann

On Aug 11, 2025, at 22:02, F. Scott Wilson via Mifnet <[email protected]> 
wrote:



Rob
Prove it wrong. The corporate jet lobby has been a very quietly successful 
lobby.
Scott

On Aug 11, 2025, at 9:20 PM, Robert Mark <[email protected]> wrote:



I have no idea where the NY Times got its data, but some of it is definitely 
fluff. In the early days of the push for ATC privatization, the airlines pushed 
the same silly tale. "Those biz jets don't pay enough ... they're delaying our 
flights ... get them out of the way."
BizAv pays what is required to pay. If someone wants to change the formula, 
then go for it. Strange that the airlines complain about bizav always getting 
in their way, but they've never been able to convince anyone else their data 
are correct. Most bizav birds don't even use the same airports the airlines do.
So now, just because the NY Times makes a cute little video, citing not a 
single source, everyone thinks they have proof of what they always "knew" was 
happening anyway. Really? 
Give me a break. 
Rob

Rob Mark, MRAeS, & CEO, CommAvia, Creators of leading-edge media for the 
aviation industry.847-864-9780 (office)847-644-1575 (mobile)2400 Grant 
StreetEvanston, IL 60201

On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 6:54 PM F. Scott Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:

No. Sold a lot of them.
Scott


On Aug 11, 2025, at 7:48 PM, Robert Mark <[email protected]> wrote:



Hmmmm. Have you ever operated an aircraft in a business aviation environment, 
Scott?
Rob

Rob Mark, MRAeS, & CEO, CommAvia, Creators of leading-edge media for the 
aviation industry.847-864-9780 (office)847-644-1575 (mobile)2400 Grant 
StreetEvanston, IL 60201

On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 6:46 PM F. Scott Wilson via Mifnet 
<[email protected]> wrote:

Nail on head
Scott


On Aug 11, 2025, at 7:35 PM, Robert Mark <[email protected]> wrote:



Awesome, Scott? In what way? Awesome, like it hits the nail right on the head, 
or missed it by a mile?
Rob Mark

Rob Mark, MRAeS, & CEO, CommAvia, Creators of leading-edge media for the 
aviation industry.847-864-9780 (office)847-644-1575 (mobile)2400 Grant 
StreetEvanston, IL 60201

On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 6:16 PM F. Scott Wilson via Mifnet 
<[email protected]> wrote:

This is awesome.
Scott


On Aug 11, 2025, at 5:28 PM, ERIC Smith via Mifnet <[email protected]> 
wrote:



  --Eric       
https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000010331153/private-planes-faa.html  
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