Hi Rob,
That is not true of the second version of Shuster’s bill, which included many of my suggestions for a revised stakeholder board structure. For example, while the first bill had a 13-member board with four seats nominated by the big airlines (A4A), the 2017 bill called for one member nominated by the major airlines, one by regional airlines, and another by cargo airlines. It also added one nominated by the airport community, and another by the controllers union. There were also to be one member nominated by NBAA and another by AOPA. This was a far better cross-section of aviation stakeholders than in the first bill. Rep. Sam Graves was very helpful in ensuring there were provisions in the 2017 bill to ensure that the contract tower program would remain in operation, and that general aviation would not have to pay ATC user fees. Alas, the AOPA/NBAA/GAMA coalition ignored these changes and continued to oppose the bill. Bob From: Robert Mark via Mifnet <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2025 10:08 AM To: [email protected] Cc: Kathryn Creedy <[email protected]>; Robert Mark <[email protected]> Subject: [Mifnet 🛰 73605] Re: Who Pays for ATC? Lest you forget, the governing board for the planned private ATC system was going to be dominated by the airlines. That is what the GA folks found intolerable, not the money nessarily. Rob Rob Mark, MRAeS, & CEO, <http://www.commavia.com> CommAvia, Creators of leading-edge media for the aviation industry. 847-864-9780 (office) 847-644-1575 (mobile) 2400 Grant Street Evanston, IL 60201 On Tue, Aug 12, 2025 at 08:56 Kathryn Creedy via Mifnet <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Bob Poole, you are, of course, right. While I want to see privatization, I don't think we will ever get there. Too bad. Cheers -- Kathryn On Tue, Aug 12, 2025 at 9:10 AM Mike Borfitz via Mifnet <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Guess you did, but isn't it interesting who pushed back. We live in a movie. Mike Borfitz On Tue, Aug 12, 2025 at 8:02 AM RWM--- via Mifnet <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Stirred the hornets’ nest, apparently. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2025-08-11/nbaa-disputes-nyt-video-calling-faa-funding-changes - Bob Mann On Aug 11, 2025, at 22:02, F. Scott Wilson via Mifnet <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Rob Prove it wrong. The corporate jet lobby has been a very quietly successful lobby. Scott On Aug 11, 2025, at 9:20 PM, Robert Mark <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:  I have no idea where the NY Times got its data, but some of it is definitely fluff. In the early days of the push for ATC privatization, the airlines pushed the same silly tale. "Those biz jets don't pay enough ... they're delaying our flights ... get them out of the way." BizAv pays what is required to pay. If someone wants to change the formula, then go for it. Strange that the airlines complain about bizav always getting in their way, but they've never been able to convince anyone else their data are correct. Most bizav birds don't even use the same airports the airlines do. So now, just because the NY Times makes a cute little video, citing not a single source, everyone thinks they have proof of what they always "knew" was happening anyway. Really? Give me a break. Rob Rob Mark, MRAeS, & CEO, <http://www.commavia.com> CommAvia, Creators of leading-edge media for the aviation industry. 847-864-9780 (office) 847-644-1575 (mobile) 2400 Grant Street <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2400+Grant+Street+Evanston,+IL+60201?entry=gmail&source=g> Evanston, IL 60201 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2400+Grant+Street+Evanston,+IL+60201?entry=gmail&source=g> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 6:54 PM F. Scott Wilson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: No. Sold a lot of them. Scott On Aug 11, 2025, at 7:48 PM, Robert Mark <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:  Hmmmm. Have you ever operated an aircraft in a business aviation environment, Scott? Rob Rob Mark, MRAeS, & CEO, <http://www.commavia.com> CommAvia, Creators of leading-edge media for the aviation industry. 847-864-9780 (office) 847-644-1575 (mobile) 2400 Grant Street <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2400+Grant+Street+Evanston,+IL+60201?entry=gmail&source=g> Evanston, IL 60201 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2400+Grant+Street+Evanston,+IL+60201?entry=gmail&source=g> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 6:46 PM F. Scott Wilson via Mifnet <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Nail on head Scott On Aug 11, 2025, at 7:35 PM, Robert Mark <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:  Awesome, Scott? In what way? Awesome, like it hits the nail right on the head, or missed it by a mile? Rob Mark Rob Mark, MRAeS, & CEO, <http://www.commavia.com> CommAvia, Creators of leading-edge media for the aviation industry. 847-864-9780 (office) 847-644-1575 (mobile) 2400 Grant Street <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2400+Grant+Street+Evanston,+IL+60201?entry=gmail&source=g> Evanston, IL 60201 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/2400+Grant+Street+Evanston,+IL+60201?entry=gmail&source=g> On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 6:16 PM F. Scott Wilson via Mifnet <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: This is awesome. Scott On Aug 11, 2025, at 5:28 PM, ERIC Smith via Mifnet <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:  --Eric https://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000010331153/private-planes-faa.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave <http://[email protected]?subject=leave> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help <http://[email protected]?subject=help> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave <http://[email protected]?subject=leave> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help <http://[email protected]?subject=help> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave <http://[email protected]?subject=leave> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help <http://[email protected]?subject=help> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave <http://[email protected]?subject=leave> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help <http://[email protected]?subject=help> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave <http://[email protected]?subject=leave> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help <http://[email protected]?subject=help> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave <http://[email protected]?subject=leave> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help <http://[email protected]?subject=help> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ -- Mike Borfitz, DER Cell 206-714-8797 e-Mail: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Kilroy Aviation LLC Website: <http://www.faaoda.com/> WWW.FAAODA.COM Kilroy is available for aviation regulatory and safety issues - Type & Production Certification, Continued Operational Safety - International validation & safety matters - Program & system management - FAA STC ODA -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave <http://[email protected]?subject=leave> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help <http://[email protected]?subject=help> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/ -- Kathryn Creedy PHONE # 321 405 4395 US-Eastern Time Zone Twitter: @kcreedy Visit me on LinkedIn -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave <http://[email protected]?subject=leave> * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help <http://[email protected]?subject=help> * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=leave * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: [email protected] * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: [email protected] * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: [email protected]?subject=help * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/
