Dear Colleagues,
I hope that I am welcome to join the thread. I was drawn in as I was reading
the various interpretations of enlightenment inherent in this discussion of
consciousness/awareness. In my study of Zen Buddhism, it appears that
enlightenment is never a "state" of consciousness or a present and ongoing
condition, but rather a momentary and unexpected realization that propels
the subject to a new level of awareness. It is for this reason that in the
koans, whenever a novice asks the master to describe his enlightenment or
"satori", the master whacks him with a stick. This beating is not a
punishment, but rather the appropriate answer to his question which is "Mu".
It seems that the master is as mystified as the student as to when and
where, if ever, he/she will experience enlightenment again. The master may
be more skilled at the practise of emptying his/her mind so that he/she will
be more receptive to enlightenment, but he/she can never be sure of
experiencing another satori. I believe that in the present, the
"enlightened" (past event) subject may be experiencing a more complete and
rewarding level of static quality in his/her experience because of the
satori, but the moment of enlightenment (satori) was itself an event of
pure dynamic quality, which by its nature, is always transient.
Regards,
The Bard
----- Original Message -----
From: Marty Jorgensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 5:19 PM
Subject: RE: MD Consciousness/Awareness/the property market in London
> Platt -
> I can't speak for Elephant, but if I'm enlightened, someone forgot to tell
> me about it. My opinion is based on what I have read outside of the MOQ -
> it is a subject that interests me greatly, but I have no personal
experience
> to draw from. There are probably hundreds of descriptions of what it
means,
> as well as a lot of personal intuition; my definition basically comes from
> Buddhist literature.
> By the way, thank you for the link to the boundary institute - very
> interesting.
> marty j
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Platt Holden
> Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 2:46 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: MD Consciousness/Awareness/the property market in London
>
>
> Hi Marty, Elephant, All:
>
> > Elephant said:
> > It is true that in so far as we transcend personality we cease to have
> > distinct *goals*, private fantasies, self-serving histories e.g... But
a
> > man who has transcended personality and become both enlightened and
> > compassionate (for the two are one) does not thereby destroy the
> > individuation of his consciousness. It is *his* consciousness which is
> > enlightened, it is *he* who is compassionate, it is *other souls* to
whom
> he
> > is compassionate. Do you follow?
> >
> Marty:
> > Me: First of all, I don't see enlightenment and compassion as the
> same
> > thing; I see it as enlightenment LEADING TO compassion, for once you see
> > reality as it is, compassion is the only thing that makes sense.
> > I don't see it as "his' compassion or 'his' enlightenment, it is simply
> > compassion and enlightenment. Where is the 'his'? If I help someone
who
> > needs it, the help I give is dynamic quality. I may try to describe it
> and
> > call it 'compassion', but the act itself is simply dynamic quality in
> > action. I don't see the 'he' behind it, other than the static image.
> There
> > is only the experience, the quality itself. So I guess I don't follow.
>
> Am I to assume that both you gentlemen have been enlightened and
> thus can claim from personal experience of the relationship between
> enlightenment and compassion? Or, is the relationship something you
> have gleaned from the testimony of others? I do not find it in the MOQ.
>
> Platt
>
>
>
>
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