2011/5/12 caramel <carame...@ymail.com> > > 2011/5/12 Frederic Da Vitoria <davito...@gmail.com> > >> >> I am not sure you are right about capitalization/punctuation rules. I >> believe there are 2 parts in a title: >> - the reference part, work type, catalog info etc... >> - the "common name" >> > > >> >> I agree the common name should be in the composer's language and follow >> that language's rules, but the reference part should not necessarily do so. >> Since Work titles are where we will apply the most normalization, part of >> the normalization rules could be that the reference part of a classical work >> should be written in English. Of all the works referenced from >> http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/CSG_Standard , only Bach, Britten and Satie >> are in the composer's language, all others seem to be in English. I am not >> saying this is right or wrong, but there are arguments for each way. I would >> have difficulties entering Чайковский, Пётр Ильич works or linking one of my >> albums to the correct works if his list was in Cyrillic. And I seriously >> doubt Béla Bartók would be easier. >> > I do not know why Bizet, Poulenc, Berlioz, Debussy works should not be > titled in French, de Falla in Spanish, WA Mozart and Beethoven in > German,.... > In the CSG doc, it is written that we should maintain the ArtistIntent too. > If the composer titled itself his works on the score, why should we > translate to English... >
JSB never heard of BWV, nor WAM of K :-) In many cases if we were to follow ArtistIntent strictly, we should remove catalog mentions. And we should restore archaic spellings too. For example some countries artificially changed spelling rules at the beginning of 20th century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reforms_of_Portuguese_orthography, so should 19th century Portuguese Works be entered in their original spelling or with modern spelling? Of course, this question would also apply to works by more well known composers such as Marin Marais or Scarlatti. Once again, I am not saying you are wrong, it certainly would be consistent with other MB rules, but we should examine the consequences. Should we record Works using the exact name the composer used (which would mean eventually checking on the manuscript) or a normalized modern name? Or something in between. Frankly, I don't know which to choose, there are arguments for each option. But I guess that the problem will be to clean the database... if I search on > ngs.musicbrainz.org the works for "Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op. 125", I > get about 400 works without taking into account other flavours Symphonie, > Sinfonie,... no key, no opus number.... So it will be a big job to merge the > works. > As you guess there is more Symphony than Sinfonie, but you can look at the > Beethoven's manuscript of the first edition of the score on IMSLP or read > the web (English) pages of the Beethoven's house museum ( > http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=15241&template=werkseite_digitales_archiv_en&_eid=1510&_ug=Symphonies&_werkid=127&_mid=Works%20by%20Ludwig%20van%20Beethoven&suchparameter=&_seite=1) > given the correct name is "Sinfonie Nr. 9 (d-Moll) op. 125" with key in > parenthesis since it was not given by the author, and opus abbreviation with > lower case (German !). We can derive a CSG compliant name from this but > since we will have to do the work for all the works and all the composers > and merge all the fake works to the correct and attach the recordings > without works (eg. > http://ngs.musicbrainz.org/recording/0160bf56-1c40-4a02-84f1-ee675c568d56and > many others). I think we can propose a language for each composer, > before to initiate the enormous work for the next months. > > I agree that I prefer languages using Latin script but not to discriminate > our Russian friends for Tchaikovsky, Shostakovitch, Moussorgsky,... I am not > closing the debate here. And there is always the possibility to add aliases > for the work names. It is a pretty solution to maintain the original title > in its language and to add at least the English translation as alias name. > You prefer Latin script like me, but Russian users would probably disagree. If we follow ArtistIntent strictly, clearly Russian Works should be entered in Cyrillic. -- Frederic Da Vitoria (davitof) Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org
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