Guys, Amen. When I was 13 and got my first commodore 64, I decided to teach myself BASIC. All I had was the manual. (the MySQL manual is the library of congress compared to this manual!) There simply were no other resources for me since I couldn't afford a modem until 2 years later, when I got a 300 baud modem, and had no idea of where to find a book about Commodore BASIC, so I used the Commodore manual and the books at the library to interpolate answers. Then, it was a matter of first, finding a BBS, then finding at least one other BBS that might have a list, until I found one that had a large list of other BBS's. On some of these were lists and forums much like this one. When I got an answer for where I might find a resource about my programming problem, I went to the library and checked out the book, or begged my mom for the 20 bucks to buy the book if it was not available at the library. No one ever gave me the answers. I figured that this was the way it was, so went with the flow... and wrote my programs. The amount of information available now, is simply astounding. Not only that, if people would bother to learn to use a search engine first, they would have no problems finding the answers. Nothing can compare to the specific results found by a correctly executed search on a clean index such as Altavista. I only post a question to a list when all other resources have been exhausted and my frustration with trying to hack the answer is overwhelming. I still have a great deal to learn, always will, but am learning at a very rapid pace, rarely needing the response of others, even with a new programming language, thanks to this resource that we call the world wide web. Some, not all, young programmers/db people today have no idea how cushy they have it. Some dive right into the internet or get a book and find the answer, others want it handed to them. The former will feel a sense of empowerment (that is justified), the latter will have never-ending frustration. Where I try to be compassionate, is undocumented or buggy stuff. I am more than willing to share. That is when experience should be called on. People need to realize that most of us are grappling with our own problems and can't re-document the wheel every time you are in a hurry and don't feel like finding it or looking it up. If it is documented somewhere, and can be produced by searching, there is not an excuse for not using that readily available knowledge. If that sounds elitist, or sounds unreasonable, I am sorry. I was shaped by my environment. I admin that sometimes I transgress out of panic and usually quickly get corrected, but I don't cry about it; I remember where I am, why I am here, and solve the problem with the available information. I still haven't been beat by a problem. L8, Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rolf Hopkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Lazy > Interesting. My guess is that you must be in your early 20s. When I was at > high school (& even uni), apart from normal lessons, researching for > assignments, etc, meant going to the library, not downloading the answer > from the internet. Internet didn't exists in those days. Maybe in the > States it did but not where I was. Teachers would only be there as a guide > but would never give us the answer. I guess the quality of teaching and > graduates have dropped greatly since I left high school. > > Cheers > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Cichy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 0:47 > Subject: Re: Lazy > > > > Human nature and education... > > > > In most cases as youngsters we are 'given' the answers and the methods for > > solving our problems. As we get older we continue to expect this and > un-able > > to function when told to figure something out. > > > > My first computer class in High school (NCR Mainframe/BASIC), I had a > teacher > > who at the time I thought was a pain in the @$$, but in looking back, I > think > > I owe my career to him. Someone would ask a question, 'Can I do ... with > > BASIC?', he would barely look up from what he was doing and say 'Yes', and > > continue reading or what ever. Students, I included, would stand at his > desk > > waiting for an explanation, a couple seconds later, he would look up, > point > > to bookshelves in the corner of the room and say 'Read the books, they'll > > tell you how' (translation from High School correct phrase, 'RTFM'). We > all > > learned a lot that year! > > > > The following year, we had another teacher, who seemed to feel she was > > 'stuck' with teaching this class. In contrast to our previous instructor, > a > > new student would ask her if you could do ... with BASIC, she would > quickly > > say 'No'. Armed with our knowledge of manual reading, the second year > > students would set out to prove her wrong, and in most cases we did! > > > > The result of these two years of computer science, Publishers have me on > the > > Christmas card list ;-) and many of my friends and associates get a real > > kick out of telling me something can't be done!! > > > > I think the big problem most newbies have with RTFM is knowing the > > terminology to look for, i.e. 'I want to add a new user', can be difficult > to > > translate into GRANT and privileges for a new user. > > > > Have a great day... > > John > > > > On Thursday 11 January 2001 09:12, Don wrote: > > > > Carlos Corzo wrote: > > > > > Some people have tried the manuals verbatim but are really confused > > > > > because they are not at your intellectual level. If this list is > for > > > > > the "intelligent only", change the title please. Not everyone can > > > > > decipher a manual. I may post questions but there are reasons for > > > > > them. My time is just as valuable as yours. > > > > > > It's human nature, > > > > > > When a novice user is confronted with a new challenge and a manual, two > > > things may occur. If the Sysadmin (support staff, lead, etc...) is in > line > > > of site or known to be in the office/building, the user will give the > > > manual a cursory glance and at the first sign of trouble, yell for the > > > Sysadmin or pick up the phone and call him/her for assistance. In this > > > case, THE LIST takes the place of the sysadmin. It's the old proverb: > > > > > > "When all else fails, read the manual" > > > > > > However, if the user is in isolation , the user will be more apt to read > > > the manual more carefully as they are not guaranteed of getting > voice/List > > > support. > > > > > > Don > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Before posting, please check: > > > http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) > > > http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) > > > > > > To request this thread, e-mail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Trouble > > > unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Before posting, please check: > > http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) > > http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) > > > > To request this thread, e-mail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Before posting, please check: > http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) > http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) > > To request this thread, e-mail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To unsubscribe, e-mail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To unsubscribe, e-mail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
