Hello Savyn, 2010/1/23 Savyn Vydelingum <sa...@publicus-solutions.com>
> Hi Raphaël and Everyone, > your mail was private but from the greeting I think it was actually meant to be public, so did I (may be you are not part of the list, which seems reasonable if as Tiny wanted we want to restrict it to people having a certain amount of experience with OpenERP; should you reply I will forward your post). > > Some great points and some offensive points too. > I am sure when referring to Indian Monkeys it was in the best intention > and not to offend, but I feel offended for some reason for my team and > people. (people = person that works with me) > May be I should clarify my thinking then: I have absolutely no problem with Indian developpers/consutants working with OpenERP, I think my collaboration with Sharoon Thomas on the new Magento connector best illustrate that fact. Also opening a business in an ex-colonized country such as Brazil also warranties I have an open mind regarding to those issues. What however I dislike is a kind of companies that are too stupid to succeed thanks to their own talent and just try to cheat a few extra market shares slaving a few Indian developers in conditions that no western developer would ever accept. I won't make the offense to name them all, but I think you know who I'm talking about. Aside from breaking the open source spirit of developers finally taking care of their own destiny and those of their projects by disobeying the marketting/management folks, this also kills our attempt to set up a decent quality standard to OpenERP. I know that some of those company finally got in trouble with their unpaid devs running away (may I say fortunately), while back in France some projects were a total shit or some like one year late on schedule because of that (that's absolutely real: in early 2008, Smile lost a project against such a company, I recently learnt it was one year late on schedule! That was worth the saving...). Finally, this is also a dishonest competition with the local folks. In the case of the "Jay" employee of Tiny Ferdinand was talking about, I just think it was worth recalling what was his Launchpad Karma made of (lot's of other developer works not exposed) in that case, though again I think he does his work properly and I wouldn't even dare to judge that. So, again, yes their are talents in India just like everywhere, no problem with this. It's just that unfortunately the vast majority of Indian companies working for western customers are NOT the exceptional organizations of such exceptionally talented developers, they often just exist because they promise to kill cost by exploring unfair labor laws, and this doesn't even work for the customers on products that are as complex as OpenERP. Even if the situation is not as bad, just like with the former African slavery or the new China slavery for manufactured products, the fact that is opportunity to be unfair exists with India unfortunately encourages a vast majority of bastards instead of the regular guys that would emerge by themselves thanks to their talent otherwise. So, I know Publicus is not that kind of player. I suggest you mark your difference then because unfortunately, most Indian actors around OpenERP do not play it so fairly. my term "Indian monkeys" was just for them not guys like Sharoon, sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I would certainly have called them "French monkeys" if they were French like me and if there were such a characterized class of low profile developers developing upon such an international labor law flaw. And how could I call them differently? For instance one month ago, an ex Indian Axelor employee contacted me, he wanted me to give him some work. He was asking me how you can download OpenERP 5.0 on Launchpad? Can you imagine that? He spent 6 months in an open source company working on something as complex as an ERP and had no shame asking me how to download the fucking source code of the current release (like URL and bzr command)? Yes, this is unfortunately what those companies are vastly made off (not to speak about the guys who can't even speak English, how can you claim to work on a world class open source product if you can't make the effort to learn English?) and they compete with the serious guys here. I just feel it's important to make things a bit clearer regarding to those issues. And again, sorry if offended some Indian guy, it was not my intention, for those who play nice and work well, I'm much rather on your side then. > > Are we concluding to a point or just placing our views forward. This > email thread is so diluted now. > Sure, and mine is not helping sorry. > > Please, exactly what do we want to achieve here? Why is Fabian not > responding...? > Well, from my talk with Cristophe from Tiny recently, the explanation is just as usual: because they are totally booked. I know that some think about other reasons, but I believe that no, it's just as simple as that: that are totally flooded by demand/customers/internal management so unfortunately they can hardly give us attention, dead simple. And by the way, his name spells Fabien, not Fabian. Sure, it's not very formal yet but may be taking shape slowly. I personally would like to give Tiny one more opportunity to consider those community requests before investing in such a branch. I'm sure their recent fund raise and Sun deal made Fabien totally busy. I think it has been worth the sacrifice and I'm expecting things to improve soon thanks to those new conquests (in that interview they say they are looking for 8 devs http://ow.ly/ZvbS, when I see they could hire guys as Xavier Morel https://code.launchpad.net/~xmo , I think this is the right and only way for them, but I wouldn't forgive them either if they hire 8 guys but those threads stay unanswered). If other don't even want to wait, that's their right. Once some think they want to assume a branching work, then we can start an other thread to discuss the modalities, as Jan just asked. I would also add those questions: - do we merge systematically automatically from 5.0 official branch (I would suggest yes and shout if some regression is found). - what API are modules supposed to adhere? For instance in some extra addons will need some method to be split so I can overide a part of it while keeping compatible with an other module, this module wouldn't work with the regular branch, but would be much better quality (more features + compatibility between modules), how would we flag them/host them... In any case, that's an interesting talk and I'm sure it will drive a few benefits at least. Raphaël Valyi http://www.akretion.com
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