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Allow me to apologize for sounding much more harsh than intended.
I don't have a lot of time today, so this will be brief, but:
- - I didn't intend to hide any of the tools. _my_ few tools are not ready to be committed, and I don't even know if docbot should be committed (probably not). Once they are refined, I will get around to sharing. Think of what I have on phpdoc.info as "alpha". In fact, the wiki wasn't even sending mail, properly, until yesterday.
- - No server is discouraging. I know there's nothing we can do about it in the immediate-term, but it's a headache for me to maintain my stuff, AND maintain the repository of it, until I see a practical use for the repository. I see your point, though, in that sharing is best, and I agree. I'd rather not commit broken/untested code to CVS until it's reached a critical mass. The problems as I see them are: 1) maintaining the repository and 2) Quick & Dirty coding that works on MY server, but certainly won't work on another (dumb things like hard-coded paths) -- these take time to fix. I will get around to adapting and committing my stuff, eventually, though.
| What my aim is to: | | - keep the good people in the group together | - get out the most of the tools we already have | - build on the tools we already have
I agree with all of this. I was by no means trying to split the group, or hide my tools. I hope this is understood.
| You seem to suggest two things in your mail: | - the scripts on phpdoc.info were not supposed to be publicly announced | - the scripts on phpdoc.info are not supposed to be open source
If you append "yet" to each of these bullets, it becomes truth.
| Well, this does not seem to be a positive direction. You say that docweb | is not yet ready for real use, and you are not considering looking into | it because of it's state. I say, that docweb will not be ready anytime, | if people do not start adding their tools and trying out / engage in | conversation about tools written by others. Docweb is supposed to host | tools, documentation, etc. for phpdoc and for a whole bunch of php.net | documentation projects. A lot of our tools might also work for pear / | php-gtk, etc.
Again, I understand. It seemed a waste of time putting efforts into something that cannot be used, practically. I agree with you, though -- others could benefit from this.
| If you develop your own non-open-sourced tools, which you even try not | to promote, people will start to develop their own tools, not knowing | about the existing stuff. Now that we know Dave already developed a | whole bunch of scripts, noone will start over from scratch, but we will | wait for Dave to submit his work to the community, so others can improve | on it, and that other doc projects can also benefit from the work. There | is no point in starting over. The only workable way is to join forces.
Agreed. This is all temporary. (August 11, 2004, #phpdoc): 18:22 < philip> maybe you should work on docweb and create these little tools there 18:22 < philip> that way you could use sqlite or mysql, and all pear libraries 18:23 < philip> email goba, show him all those tools you created and how you want to put them on docweb 18:24 <@erigol> nah, i just don't do much php coding. 18:24 < philip> what do you do? 18:24 <@erigol> UNEMPLOYED 18:25 < philip> working on docweb is perfect for you then :) 18:26 < philip> sean too 18:26 < sean> ... yeah 18:26 < sean> when the dust settles
Seems the dust is settling, and efforts will not be wasted. I'll try to ~ get some work done on docweb. (Do all phpdoc folk have karma? I forget. If not, may I please have some? (-: )
| If you don't help making docweb a reality, but rather just wait for it | to become cool stuff, it will never become one.
It's very difficult for me to justify the time to maintain stuff if there's nowhere to deploy it, as I've said above. Again, I understand where you're coming from, and agree, we should all pitch in.
| Livedocs cvs was not a central repository for patches, but for livedocs | itself. I have not seen any committed patch files (only applied ones).
Patches would be unnecessary if we didn't have to go through the 3 people with karma. But I digress, the patch queues seem to be on the way to consolidation, and this won't be a problem in the near future.
Anyway, I know you meant no harm, and neither did I. I suspect we'll be able to move forward at a much greater speed once the server is in place, we'll just need to get past the mental block of practicality in the meantime.
(nice to see you on #phpdoc (-; )
(so much for brief!)
S
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