Hello, To be clear, ReactOS doesn't have enough donations to pay devs living in countries where life is expensive (and can't afford to work as full- time dev for the project), along with maintaining infrastructure (paying servers to run JIRA, the forums, the buildbots and slavebots for the testsuite) to allow the project to continue.
Then, I don't understand the issue with Jira, as devs keep an eye on JIRA (that's another story for the forum, which is not really supposed to serve as bugtracker by the way). Also, keep in mind that a lot of issues are very *complex* and sometimes need huge architectural changes which are not documented. For instance, a lot of theming issues couldn't be resolved until Giannis and I worked on an implementation of SxS window class redirection for ReactOS, which takes months (which happen in several places, notably win32 subsystem, comctl32 and even ntdll). So devs do what they can do according to life constraints, skills and time they can allocate for the project. By the way, if you want the project to succeed, why not learning C and becoming a paid developer ? :) Le samedi 25 mars 2017 à 23:17 +0300, Alexander Rechitskiy a écrit : > My original claim was that discussion about opening #reactos-dev is > useless > because: > 1. Devs intentionally not pay attention to #reactos > 2. They even intentionally not pay attention to forum and JIRA > > So if we open #reactos-dev the dev will start ignore #reactos-dev > too. > > So the real problem is the devs intentional detachment and > indifference and not the problem of #reactos-dev > > You spend time in useless discussion instead of facing the real > problem. > > Also even you treat ReactOS as a hobby, you should not treat it as a > toy. Too many people have already set their hopes for ReactOS. We > should not dissappoint them by leaving the job half way again and > again. ReactOS will not become more mature thing, while you still > consider it just as a pet. It really may be mature, but with that > attitude it is not possible. We should take some responsibility. The > sooner you accept that, the better. > > We have the paradoxical situation. ReactOS Foundation has money for > contracts, but nobody accepts them. Unstead the majority of > participants reported the excuses, that they have all the time spent > on REAL work and personal life. And for ReactOS there is no time > left. Do not you think that there is a self-deception here? Why not > combine a hobby and earning money? Why not work for the ReactOS > Foundation? ReactOS, with the right approach taken, may grow into > serious buisnes. > > > > 25.03.2017, 22:23, "David Quintana (gigaherz)" <gigah...@gmail.com>: > > You HAVE to understand that everyone is contributing what they > > think they can afford to contribute. No matter how much it may be > > "best" if they used their time on something else, they ARE > > contributors, not slaves, so they are free to work on what they > > want. The sooner you accept that, the better. > > > > > > > > On 25 March 2017 at 19:42, Alexander Rechitskiy <art1st-tm@yandex.r > > u> wrote: > > Giannis > > > > Project also accepts bug-reports, this important part of workflow, > > and this is the place where I am contributor #2 > > https://jira.reactos.org/secure/ConfigureReport.jspa?projectOrFilte > > rId=project- > > 10005&statistictype=reporter&selectedProjectId=10005&reportKey=com. > > atlassian.jira.jira-core-reports-plugin%3Apie-report&Next=Next > > > > 25.03.2017, 18:32, "Giannis Adamopoulos" <giannis.adamopoulos@react > > os.org>: > > > Right, show me the code. AKA we accept patches Alexander. > > > Regarding #reactos-dev, I'm afraid that if we open it to everyone > > > we will see the endless noise from jira to flood #reactos-dev. > > > > > > ReactOS Development List <ros-dev@reactos.org> wrote on Sat, > > > March 25th, 2017, 2:01 PM: > > > “Talk is cheap. Show me the code.” ― Linus Torvalds > > > > > > > > > Speed of development of ReactOS is really slow. Developers do > > > not care even about reports in JIRA. This discussion is sensles > > > and useless because regardless of the it's result nothing will be > > > better in ReactOS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 25.03.2017, 15:52, "Robert Naumann" <gonzo...@gmail.com>: > > > There should simply be more devs in #reactos. Some are, but many > > > are not. Everyone of us is able to give voice to newbies and > > > direct dev related conversations to the dev channel. When we open > > > this chan to the public we could instead remove it and do > > > everything via #reactos. > > > Am 25.03.2017 13:33 schrieb "David Quintana (gigaherz)" <gigahe > > > r...@gmail.com>:I don't see any usefulness in a #reactos-gsoc. It > > > would isolate the gsoc people, rather than help them integrate > > > into the team. Remember Google isn't just giving projects some > > > free labor, the goal is to introduce new devs into the > > > communities with the idea of them remaining in those communities. > > > So being in the main channels should be part of the goal of gsoc. > > > > > > On 25 March 2017 at 08:53, Michael Fritscher <michael@fritscher > > > .net> wrote:Too many chans will clutter it, in the end the devs > > > will have to join 10 > > > chans. The chans aren't that high-traffic ones. > > > > > > I think we should yust try to do a -m and see what happens. > > > > Yes, that's a better idea. #reactos-gsoc > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:53 PM, Alex Ionescu <ionucu@videotro > > > n.ca> wrote: > > > > > > > >> I don't agree. Maintain the auto-voice lists and get someone > > > in charge > > > >> of > > > >> operations, like I used to be for many years on IRC. > > > >> > > > >> Instead, why not create a #reactos-gsoc or something? > > > >> > > > >> Best regards, > > > >> Alex Ionescu > > > >> > > > >> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Mark Jansen <learn0more+ros > > > @gmail.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> We can always try it out? > > > >>> If it doesnt work, restoring it is a simple as setting a > > > flag on the > > > >>> channel. > > > >>> > > > >>> On 24 March 2017 at 16:31, David Quintana (gigaherz) > > > >>> <gigah...@gmail.com> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > I disagree -- if we can be firm about the channel being > > > only for > > > >>> development > > > >>> > talk, things should remain mostly as they are now. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > In any community, there's inevitably going to be idle > > > talk, offtopic > > > >>> > conversations, etc. If you only have ONE place to talk in, > > > all those > > > >>> thigns > > > >>> > are going to be mixed in with actual dev talk, but if you > > > have clear > > > >>> rooms > > > >>> > set for each thing, the majority of people will be happy > > > to leave all > > > >>> the > > > >>> > offtopic talk to the main channel, and dev talk to the dev > > > channel. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > It works for plenty other projects and communities so > > > there's no > > > >>> reason > > > >>> to > > > >>> > be pessimistic and think that "our idiots are worse". It's > > > simply not > > > >>> true. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > I vote for trying, and we can always put back the +m if > > > things get > > > >>> out > > > >>> of > > > >>> > hand. > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > On 24 March 2017 at 16:13, Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAà TO > > > >>> <hermes.belu...@sfr.fr> > > > >>> > wrote: > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> I don’t approve the idea. The fact is that if the devs > > > quit > > > >>> originally > > > >>> >> #reactos, it’s because it was generally too noisy, > > > etc… . If we > > > >>> remove > > > >>> the > > > >>> >> moderation irc bit in #reactos-dev, you may expect the > > > same > > > >>> phenomenon > > > >>> to > > > >>> >> occur in #reactos-dev too. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> De : Ros-dev [mailto:ros-dev-boun...@reactos.org] De la > > > part de > > > >>> David > > > >>> >> Quintana (gigaherz) > > > >>> >> Envoyé : vendredi 24 mars 2017 11:35 > > > >>> >> À : ReactOS Development List>>> >> Objet : Re: [ros-dev] > > > Opening up #reactos-dev to the public > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> I approve the idea. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck <co...@reactos.org > > > > wrote: > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Hi all! > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a > > > moderated > > > >>> IRC > > > >>> >> channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced > > > people can > > > >>> >> talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev- > > > related there, > > > >>> no > > > >>> >> topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is > > > that I see a > > > >>> >> notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these > > > days. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers > > > hardly have a > > > >>> way > > > >>> to > > > >>> >> interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, > > > legitimate > > > >>> >> questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. > > > Moreover, we > > > >>> don't > > > >>> >> maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even > > > some > > > >>> contributors > > > >>> >> have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where > > > students > > > >>> shall > > > >>> >> submit their proposals and get in touch with the > > > developers. > > > >>> >> How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev > > > continues to be > > > >>> an > > > >>> >> exclusive club? > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the > > > moderation bit > > > >>> on > > > >>> >> #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there. > > > >>> >> Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon > > > as people > > > >>> get > > > >>> >> too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and > > > kicked if > > > >>> nothing > > > >>> >> else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on > > > >>> #reactos-dev, > > > >>> >> it's fully in their hands. > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Cheers, > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> Colin > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> >> Ros-dev mailing list > > > >>> >> Ros-dev@reactos.org > > > >>> >> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> >> Ros-dev mailing list > > > >>> >> Ros-dev@reactos.org > > > >>> >> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > > > >>> > Ros-dev mailing list > > > >>> > Ros-dev@reactos.org > > > >>> > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Ros-dev mailing list > > > >>> Ros-dev@reactos.org > > > >>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Ros-dev mailing list > > > >> Ros-dev@reactos.org > > > >> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ros-dev mailing list > > > > Ros-dev@reactos.org > > > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ros-dev mailing list > > > Ros-dev@reactos.org > > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ros-dev mailing list > > > Ros-dev@reactos.org > > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > > > > > ,_______________________________________________ > > > Ros-dev mailing list > > > Ros-dev@reactos.org > > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ros-dev mailing list > > > Ros-dev@reactos.org > > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ros-dev mailing list > > Ros-dev@reactos.org > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > , > > _______________________________________________ > > Ros-dev mailing list > > Ros-dev@reactos.org > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > > > -- > Best regards, > > _______________________________________________ > Ros-dev mailing list > Ros-dev@reactos.org > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
