Re: [9fans] exporting namespace
On 3 Nov, 14:04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (erik quanstrom) wrote: m trying to export a namespace from my file server (that is a namespace's bootes) to my terminal (logging as a client), i tried to do: servname% exportfs -a -r /tmp (from file server) but i have this error: exportfs: auth_proxy: auth_proxy write fd: inappropriate use of fd before doing this, i opened the listeners by doing: aux/listen tcp why not use cpu to do this? Furthermore,from fileserver, i tried to export a namespace by doing: srvfs -d spy /tmp so it display the issue only on it; from terminal i can import services from filesever by doing: import -a servername '#s' /username/tmp but i can't see /srv/spy, i see all other things but not the last created. namespaces are not lexically bound. i think you'll find that srvfs is in a namespace that can't see the result of the import. if instead you do the import before the srvfs, i think you'll see the expected result. - erik Thanks a lot Eric for your response... I did it as you said and the result was what i expected.. Now i have other problems with connections from terminal to diskless cpuserver, but i already started a new post, so maybe we'll see there...thanks Armando
Re: [9fans] yes, comcast really *does* suck
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:59 PM, jfmxl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My ISP was blocking port 25 outgoing, so I could send mail to my own mailserver. It turned out that sendmail was listening on port 587 as well, so I use that instead. I assumed my ISP was blocking outgoing port 25 to stop captured machines from spamming. Why do you think yours stopped incoming port 25? Probably just easier to block it in both directions? My ISP blocks common incoming ports (25, 80) by default, presumably because they see much more abuse than legitimate use - just think of the number of people who run mail/www servers over residential broadband vs the number of people with potentially vulnerable windows machines. Fortunately for me, my ISP also provides an easy way to turn the filtering off. -sqweek
Re: [9fans] yes, comcast really *does* suck
Here in Saudi Arabia, most ISPs are happy to provide what I like to call five sevens service. I think that it would be awesome to have a net connection stable enough to run a smtp or http server. Then again I think it would be nice to have an ISP where I don't have to run pull 3 or 4 times in order to get a full update. I can't get out of here fast enough (2.5 months left on contract). -jcw On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 4:57 PM, sqweek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:59 PM, jfmxl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My ISP was blocking port 25 outgoing, so I could send mail to my own mailserver. It turned out that sendmail was listening on port 587 as well, so I use that instead. I assumed my ISP was blocking outgoing port 25 to stop captured machines from spamming. Why do you think yours stopped incoming port 25? Probably just easier to block it in both directions? My ISP blocks common incoming ports (25, 80) by default, presumably because they see much more abuse than legitimate use - just think of the number of people who run mail/www servers over residential broadband vs the number of people with potentially vulnerable windows machines. Fortunately for me, my ISP also provides an easy way to turn the filtering off. -sqweek
Re: [9fans] plan9 lexer problem
the manual for lex says ..
lex -9
should generate a Plan9 compatible code with u.h and libc.h included,
otherwise 8c and 8l will generate error searching for vsprintf(...)
/Prem
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 4:54 PM, erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
%{
%}
%%
stop print(Stop!! recieved\n);
start print(Start - recieved\n);
%%
the fix for this should be to add
#include u.h
#include libc.h
between %{ and %} but this doesn't work because
lex includes stdio.h before it processes %{ %}.
you'll need to write a shim, fixlex.c, that goes like this
#include u.h
#include libc.h
#include lex.yy.c
that is unless you want to dive into the lex source. :-)
- erik
Re: [9fans] 9grid
Thanks for replaying... Sorry but i got confusion about your replay, i think i don't understand very well I want to make it clear first that the file/auth server are the same pc, and the cpuservers are the nodes of the cluster (5 nodes), which are diskless, and a terminal (my laptop). I'd like to use the cpu(1) command to connect to one node of the cluster (cpuserver) from the terminal, i tried by doing: term% cpu -h cpus term% ls /mnt/term term% but i think it isn't correct, because the prompt is still term%, and / mnt/term is empty, i did ls /mnt/term because i wanted to see if the namespace was mounted. is that correct? I hope i explain to you in the right way. thanks again.. bye, Armando there's nothing in the system itself that changes one's prompt. this is done by the profile. typically one can use the convention that $sysname is the contents of /dev/sysname. ; echo $sysname $cpu brasstown ladd ; cpu ; echo $sysname - erik
[9fans] Next IWP9
Was really bummed not to be able to make IWP9 this year. A note to whoever is considering hosting the next one -- it would be really cool for us corporate types if we could move it into the first two quarters of the year as its usually around July that our travel budgets get slashed. I think it would even be worth skipping a year so we could move it earlier if that was necessary. Co-location with a major conference (USENIX, OSDI, SOSP, etc.) would be nice too, but since that would probably bump the costs for folks it may be less desirable. -eric
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
Was really bummed not to be able to make IWP9 this year. A note to whoever is considering hosting the next one -- it would be really cool for us corporate types if we could move it into the first two quarters of the year as its usually around July that our travel budgets get slashed. I think it would even be worth skipping a year so we could move it earlier if that was necessary. Co-location with a major conference (USENIX, OSDI, SOSP, etc.) would be nice too, but since that would probably bump the costs for folks it may be less desirable. -eric Putting in a request for somewhere in the Northeast U.S. next year, if people are willing to accept the weather. I'd offer to host it here in Rochester (at RIT, I think they'd go for it) but the conditions can be expected to be similar to Murray Hill's from IWP9 2007. John
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
Northeast US, say january or feb., skipping next year, would be great for me. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Putting in a request for somewhere in the Northeast U.S. next year, if people are willing to accept the weather. I'd offer to host it here in Rochester (at RIT, I think they'd go for it) but the conditions can be expected to be similar to Murray Hill's from IWP9 2007. John
Re: [9fans] yes, comcast really *does* suck
So we're building up direct (encrypted) uucp links again. Not just to get around the regulation, but also not to let the spies learn what's going through the wire. why uucp? ppp works just fine for direct connections. - erik
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Fco. J. Ballesteros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Northeast US, say january or feb., skipping next year, would be great for me. Clearly you just want to go skiing ;) -eric
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:26 AM, Enrico Weigelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * sqweek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone has write access to the plan 9 wiki. hmm, perhaps I didn't look hard enough, but I didn't see anything like an edit button etc ... ;-o Put in Acme Wiki.
Re: [9fans] plan9 on opensparc ?
64-bit sparc compiler would be first step -eric On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 9:44 AM, ron minnich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 1:58 AM, simplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone tried this? http://www.opensparc.net/ I've been wanting to ... no time. Somebody should however. It's quite neat. ron
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
Northeast US, say january or feb., skipping next year, would be great for me. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Putting in a request for somewhere in the Northeast U.S. next year, if people are willing to accept the weather. I'd offer to host it here in Rochester (at RIT, I think they'd go for it) but the conditions can be expected to be similar to Murray Hill's from IWP9 2007. i have offered to host in athens, ga. home of coraid, the university of georgia, and almost never any snow. we're just outside atlanta. - erik
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:03 AM, erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i have offered to host in athens, ga. home of coraid, the university of georgia, and almost never any snow. we're just outside atlanta. I like it being near a major airport, and atlanta is a very common one-stop from many places. ron
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
i have offered to host in athens, ga. home of coraid, the university of georgia, and almost never any snow. we're just outside atlanta. That would work better really well for me, as I'm in Memphis--much easier to drive to Atlanta than to the northeast, or Greece for that matter... And since it'd probably be on my dime, saving plane fare is really appealing. Just my 2 cents--and worth every penny... BLS
Re: [9fans] photos of iwp9
Hi all, Another call for a photo of me giving the talk. It would significantly increase the value of the shirt! Links mentioned in Volos: Synth chip (open group): http://groups.google.com/group/casella Dis on a chip (just ask and ye shall receive): http://groups.google.com/group/dis-on-a-chip Apparel: http://www.cafepress.com/chunder Silly songs: http://www.chunder.com/sillysongs/kitchen.mp3 http://www.chunder.com/sillysongs/reveries.mp3 Also, I have just had another enquiry from some dude wanting to buy chunder.com - a place dear to my heart. I've turned down substantial offers before (it was quite a find I think). What is the consensus? brucee On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 2:15 AM, sqweek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Kernel Panic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/cinap_lenrek/photos/iwp9.2008/dscn0195.jpg I have this sudden impulse to start using abaco... -sqweek
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
we want to avoid the mistake I made at the last linuxbios meeting -- attaching it to an expensive conference. keep it cheap. ron
[9fans] 9grid
Hi All, I'm accomplishing a 9grid, that is composed of a file server, 2 cluster (diskless cpuserver nodes) and a terminal.. I'm trying to connect to a cpuserver (node of 9grid) from a terminal, to launch some tasks, but i don't really know how to do it, i was trying with cpu(1) command, i was doing: cpu -h fileservername and the prompt changed from term% to cpu%, and i supposed that was correct, but when i tried to connect to a cpuserver (all nodes are diskless) cpu -h cpuservername the prompt didn't change, is that correct? before doing this, i tried with cpu -h cpuservername -c cmd args but i'm not really sure if the replay i obtained was neither from that cpuserver or from terminal. All of this, i was trying to do to testing nodes, in effect, i'd want to launch from terminal a simple program i.e.: i say hello and the chosen node replays hasta la vista baby. Thanks in advance for every response. Armando.
Re: [9fans] 9grid
trying with cpu(1) command, i was doing: cpu -h fileservername and the prompt changed from term% to cpu%, and i supposed that was correct, but when i tried to connect to a cpuserver (all nodes are diskless) cpu -h cpuservername the prompt didn't change, is that correct? before doing this, i tried with there's nothing in the system itself that changes one's prompt. this is done by the profile. typically one can use the convention that $sysname is the contents of /dev/sysname. ; echo $sysname $cpu brasstown ladd ; cpu ; echo $sysname - erik
Re: [9fans] photos of iwp9
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Bruce Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another call for a photo of me giving the talk. It would significantly increase the value of the shirt! cinap just gave you one! http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/cinap_lenrek/photos/iwp9.2008/dscn0182.jpg If you thought the sea of links made it hard to find, now you know how visitors to chunder.com feel ;) -sqweek
Re: [9fans] 9grid
I have a doubt.because i was thinking about all i have to do, and i don't know if using cpu command is the right thing to do. anyway, the fact is, i have to launch a simple task from terminal (connected by armando) to a node on the cluster (diskless cpu server), i thought that cpu command was right but i'm not really sure anymore, because in unix i used to use rsh and rcmd. any suggestions please?? thanks in advance to all of you, bye, Armando. On 10 Nov, 15:13, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for replaying... Sorry but i got confusion about your replay, i think i don't understand very well I want to make it clear first that the file/auth server are the same pc, and the cpuservers are the nodes of the cluster (5 nodes), which are diskless, and a terminal (my laptop). I'd like to use the cpu(1) command to connect to one node of the cluster (cpuserver) from the terminal, i tried by doing: term% cpu -h cpus term% ls /mnt/term term% but i think it isn't correct, because the prompt is still term%, and / mnt/term is empty, i did ls /mnt/term because i wanted to see if the namespace was mounted. is that correct? I hope i explain to you in the right way. thanks again.. bye, Armando
Re: [9fans] 9grid
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 9:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a doubt.because i was thinking about all i have to do, and i don't know if using cpu command is the right thing to do. anyway, the fact is, i have to launch a simple task from terminal (connected by armando) to a node on the cluster (diskless cpu server), i thought that cpu command was right but i'm not really sure anymore, because in unix i used to use rsh and rcmd. any suggestions please?? rsh and ssh suck in clusters. cpu is almost exactly what you want. You don't get cpu on linux because the linux guys have not reinvented them yet. Give them time. ron
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
I have enquired and am settled with Sydney in the first week of November, if if you want that. Everything All ready to go. Tell me if you want a different month. brucee (as much as i enoy this greek expedition i can't take tiger to the US, without great expense and possible harm). On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:44 PM, ron minnich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we want to avoid the mistake I made at the last linuxbios meeting -- attaching it to an expensive conference. keep it cheap. ron
Re: [9fans] plan9 lexer problem
%{
%}
%%
stop print(Stop!! recieved\n);
start print(Start - recieved\n);
%%
the fix for this should be to add
#include u.h
#include libc.h
between %{ and %} but this doesn't work because
lex includes stdio.h before it processes %{ %}.
you'll need to write a shim, fixlex.c, that goes like this
#include u.h
#include libc.h
#include lex.yy.c
that is unless you want to dive into the lex source. :-)
- erik
Re: [9fans] yes, comcast really *does* suck
* erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So we're building up direct (encrypted) uucp links again. Not just to get around the regulation, but also not to let the spies learn what's going through the wire. why uucp? ppp works just fine for direct connections. we're just talking about mail transfer, so uucp IMHO is the easiest solution, especially if machines aren't up and online all the day ... cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
So we IMHO should learn from all the big community projects how to attract people and get them involved with minimal effort. It's not for us, it's for them ... i know, but have you spoken to the auther of the comment below: Mozilla folks aren't very open to innovation (no matter how old/mature this innovation already is), but at least I've still got some hope ;) hey! it was you! that's more my experience with Apache and Perl, so far, and not even for `innovation', just getting their stuff going on Windows.
Re: [9fans] yes, comcast really *does* suck
Port 587 is mostly used for TLS encrypted SMTP. Blocking outgoing 25 is madness. Email is one rudimentary service everyone expects from their Internet connectivity and not everybody uses web mail interfaces. machines from spamming. Why do you think yours stopped incoming port 25? Probably just easier to block it in both directions? I guess because terms of service for a home user do not cover serving from the user's site. Ron Minnich said it's his home machine so I assume he has paid for a plan with the word home somewhere in the plan title or the ToS. ISPs like to distinguish servers from clients so that they can safely cram as many little clients into one big channel as possible. Clients don't expect quality of service--most of them don't _understand_ quality of service. A dial-up ISP I once bought services from used to block ICMP. When I complained they said it was to safeguard the users against Smurf attacks. I knew it was to safeguard themselves against users snooping into their poorly configured internal network. I went as far as getting a prompt from one of their routers--it had a never-configured telnet server running--but I didn't know what to do next. It was no use anyway. --On Monday, November 10, 2008 9:59 AM + jfmxl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My ISP was blocking port 25 outgoing, so I could send mail to my own mailserver. It turned out that sendmail was listening on port 587 as well, so I use that instead. I assumed my ISP was blocking outgoing port 25 to stop captured machines from spamming. Why do you think yours stopped incoming port 25? Probably just easier to block it in both directions?
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
I´m trading snow extra hours flying. :) I don´t like snow too much, but making a long trip longer is worse, IMHO. On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Fco. J. Ballesteros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Northeast US, say january or feb., skipping next year, would be great for me. Clearly you just want to go skiing ;) -eric
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 09:36:02AM -0600, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Fco. J. Ballesteros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Northeast US, say january or feb., skipping next year, would be great for me. Clearly you just want to go skiing ;) sheeesh, barely returned from scuba diving in Volos and already thinking of skiing...? Mathieu
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 11:03 AM, erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i have offered to host in athens, ga. home of coraid, the university of georgia, and almost never any snow. we're just outside atlanta. - erik I too would prefer Athens, GA as I live there. Also I would likely be able to volunteer to video tape the talks and assemble a DVD of them if it were. I would be interested in doing so anyway if I can get myself and my gear to the conference. Ian
Re: [9fans] yes, comcast really *does* suck
BigPond in Australia blocks outgoing - you can only use their mail server. I spoke to one of their security experts and ended up asking what if my remote mailserver was on port 80?. Long pause. Well the decision has been made. Well good, I'll change to port 80 - have a nice day. brucee On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 11:59 AM, jfmxl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My ISP was blocking port 25 outgoing, so I could send mail to my own mailserver. It turned out that sendmail was listening on port 587 as well, so I use that instead. I assumed my ISP was blocking outgoing port 25 to stop captured machines from spamming. Why do you think yours stopped incoming port 25? Probably just easier to block it in both directions?
Re: [9fans] photos of iwp9
what a good man! On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 11:31 AM, sqweek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Bruce Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another call for a photo of me giving the talk. It would significantly increase the value of the shirt! cinap just gave you one! http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/cinap_lenrek/photos/iwp9.2008/dscn0182.jpg If you thought the sea of links made it hard to find, now you know how visitors to chunder.com feel ;) -sqweek
Re: [9fans] yes, comcast really *does* suck
i was sure my copy of pathalias would somehow come into its own again.---BeginMessage--- * erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So we're building up direct (encrypted) uucp links again. Not just to get around the regulation, but also not to let the spies learn what's going through the wire. why uucp? ppp works just fine for direct connections. we're just talking about mail transfer, so uucp IMHO is the easiest solution, especially if machines aren't up and online all the day ... cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme -End Message---
Re: [9fans] yes, comcast really *does* suck
Curiously BigPond (Big, Big, Stagnant Pond) does not block incoming 80. So if you can guess my IP you can be entertained. Maybe I'll stir the Pond again in the future. brucee On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Charles Forsyth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i was sure my copy of pathalias would somehow come into its own again. -- Forwarded message -- From: Enrico Weigelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 9fans@9fans.net Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:06:13 +0100 Subject: Re: [9fans] yes, comcast really *does* suck * erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So we're building up direct (encrypted) uucp links again. Not just to get around the regulation, but also not to let the spies learn what's going through the wire. why uucp? ppp works just fine for direct connections. we're just talking about mail transfer, so uucp IMHO is the easiest solution, especially if machines aren't up and online all the day ... cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
Colocation with Bondi Beach may not be bad either. http://www.chunder.com/may96/ravesis.html You, and Summit Police, have met Ms Wendy - Mr Hensbergen Pickup-Truck. I will give in and fly if needed. What else do I do with all these damned frequent flyer miles? With all due respect, brucee On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Was really bummed not to be able to make IWP9 this year. A note to whoever is considering hosting the next one -- it would be really cool for us corporate types if we could move it into the first two quarters of the year as its usually around July that our travel budgets get slashed. I think it would even be worth skipping a year so we could move it earlier if that was necessary. Co-location with a major conference (USENIX, OSDI, SOSP, etc.) would be nice too, but since that would probably bump the costs for folks it may be less desirable. -eric
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: Northeast US, say january or feb., skipping next year, would be great for me. Clearly you just want to go skiing ;) If you want skiing then you want to hold it in Whistler (British Columbia). But I would *strongly* recommend against skipping a year if it's held there :-P There are things about Whi$tler that would pose problems for some.
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Nov 10, 2008, at 4:48 PM, Wes Kussmaul wrote: There are things about Whi$tler that would pose problems for some. Is it possible to rent a room in the Longhorn? And if there are too many people, some of us could go on Blackcomb. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkkYrc8ACgkQuv7AVNQDs+wq9QCdEdulQX/0KQVHmgQMl3n5/rIH t1QAn36jCGFecSM62w4+FgK1uCTS8tzR =Vk6d -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
If you want skiing then you want to hold it in Whistler (British Columbia). But I would *strongly* recommend against skipping a year if it's held there :-P There are things about Whi$tler that would pose problems for some. Whistler got its name from the common reaction to readers of its rate sheet.
[9fans] speaking of whistler...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Here's a screenshot of Windows 7: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Windows7Desktop.png I think this looks familiar. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkkYrlUACgkQuv7AVNQDs+wZfACfQtDTq1ShP1kw1I68WBPFh+pW fpcAoJuIsDyQgtXCd2CyBP9jcw5mSM/b =rAVj -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [9fans] Next IWP9
My orthopaedic surgeon would disown me - and he's a valuable asset. brucee On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Wes Kussmaul [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want skiing then you want to hold it in Whistler (British Columbia). But I would *strongly* recommend against skipping a year if it's held there :-P There are things about Whi$tler that would pose problems for some. Whistler got its name from the common reaction to readers of its rate sheet.
Re: [9fans] success with 9vx from a terminal
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 01:55 +0900, sqweek wrote: On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Roman V. Shaposhnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only question is -- where such a note is supposed to be sent to? Can someone, please, educate me on the moral equivalent of process groups, sessions and their relationships with #c/cons ? Maybe you worked this one out already, Well, sort of -- yes. But thanks for chiming in anyway. I'm not aware of any relationship between #c/cons and notes, but I'm not really sure what magic is involved in the DEL interrupt. At least in case of cpu(1) the magic is a bit perverse and quite unlike the rest of the system. The way notes are managed make a local end of a cpu(1) jump through considerable hoops in order for the notes to be properly delivered. That was a sad discovery. Another discovery was that devcons.c could have made DEL work but decided not to :-( Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
On 10-Nov-08, at 10:56 PM, Roman V. Shaposhnik wrote: I wish 9p:// URL worked out of the box in Firefox, but it doesn't. Shameless plug: It does if you install the Angled extension: http://www.kix.in/projects/web9/ Ok, I lied - ninep:// works, 9p:// doesn't :) -- Anant
Re: [9fans] success with 9vx from a terminal
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Roman V. Shaposhnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least in case of cpu(1) the magic is a bit perverse and quite unlike the rest of the system. The way notes are managed make a local end of a cpu(1) jump through considerable hoops in order for the notes to be properly delivered. That was a sad discovery. CPU is really worth reading and understanding. It uses a lot of neat tricks. Recommended. ron
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 15:17 +0900, sqweek wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Enrico Weigelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Steve Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about if you start a page with a list of the 9p file servers you know of, say on the plan9 wiki, and then email 9fans asking them to add any that you have missed? If I had write access, I'd just did it ;-o Everyone has write access to the plan 9 wiki. plan 9 wiki is a very good suggestion. I would like to start such a topic there. I do have 2 questions though: 1. It doesn't seem to allow anonymous edits: I tried: http://netlib.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/sandbox/edit.html and all I got was: http://netlib.bell-labs.com/magic/wikipost Object not found The object does not exist on this server. errstr: '/bin/ip/httpd/wikipost' does not exist uri host: header host: actual host: plan9.bell-labs.com Direct edits from my Acme also don't seem to work. 2. When/if it works what would be the appropriate place to stick that topic into? Meanwhile I've just added my 9P libs (libmixp, libmixpsrv) to the 9P page @ wikipedia - probably a good starting point, too. But if we're talking about 9P/Styx in general (not specifically on Plan9 or Inferno), it might be wise to set up a sepate website. This site should also contain information on topics like what 9P is really good for and why application developers should use it :) Just let me know if you'd like to feed some input to such a site, and I'll set up one. http://9p.cat-v.org is halfway there, makes more sense to improve that than start a new site. Agreed. In fact, halfway is a very accurate description ;-) It already has http://9p.cat-v.org/implementations, but it still lacks what I would call a servers page. Get in touch with Uriel if you want something on there that isn't already there, That would be http://9p.cat-v.org/servers linked from his Left-hand-side menu. Speaking of getting in touch with Uriel -- is he not subscribed to this list? ;-) Or well, I'll CC him ;-) or if you want to make his life easy you can send a patch to the document source. You can get the source by appending .md to the url (eg http://9p.cat-v.org/implementations.md or http://9p.cat-v.org/index.md ) - they are written in markdown[1] syntax. Also he has something in the works to enable editing via http, which I believe is implemented but needs testing... Thanks for the .md suggestion. One thing that I clearly see missing on the implementations page is the Java implementation done at LSUB. Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] success with 9vx from a terminal
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 14:49 -0800, ron minnich wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Roman V. Shaposhnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least in case of cpu(1) the magic is a bit perverse and quite unlike the rest of the system. The way notes are managed make a local end of a cpu(1) jump through considerable hoops in order for the notes to be properly delivered. That was a sad discovery. CPU is really worth reading and understanding. 100% agreed. But... It uses a lot of neat tricks. ... would you really honestly say that rolling out your own notes forwarder is a *neat* trick? As opposed to be able to use basic system's FS functionality? This not a jab at cpu(1) rather at the design of notes. My personal feeling when going over that bit was: well, that's how UNIX people do signal forwarding (we do something similar for the remote debugging sessions) am I reading the right source file?!?! Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] success with 9vx from a terminal
cpu is just great tutorial. notes forwarder, well, I am stil unsure. ron
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
On Sun, 2008-11-09 at 11:26 +, Steve Simon wrote: How about if you start a page with a list of the 9p file servers you know of, say on the plan9 wiki, and then email 9fans asking them to add any that you have missed? That's the plan! I can see how such a thing might be a useful resource to people on the list as well as a promotional tool. It could also (perhaps) focus attention of those with time and interest towards the best ones to tackle next. I can do whatever cataloging is necessary, that's not a problem. Describing the applications and limitations of 9P on the other hand, feels like something that would belong to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9P and I would really feel much more comfortable if some of the founding fathers can take a stab at it first. Thanks, Roman. P.S. Or am I not appreciating the collaborative nature of the Wikipedia? :-)
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
And even we we stick with the resources as regular files approach on the client you're stuck with mostly POSIX environment + locking (+caching). POSIX means symlink(2) and mknod(2) no, because (unless i've misunderstood) they are accessing resources (as regular files) on a remote server, and symbolic links and outdated major/minor are irrelevant and not needed.
Re: [9fans] success with 9vx from a terminal
At least in case of cpu(1) the magic is a bit perverse and quite unlike the rest of the system. The way notes are managed make a local end of a cpu(1) jump through considerable hoops in order for the notes to be properly delivered. That was a sad discovery. Another discovery was that devcons.c could have made DEL work but decided not to :-( talking about it is the easy part. why don't you code something up? - erik
Re: [9fans] success with 9vx from a terminal
... would you really honestly say that rolling out your own notes forwarder is a *neat* trick? As opposed to be able to use basic system's FS functionality? ok, how would you implement it, then? how would you deliver a note to a process that's running on a remote machine? would you be introducing distributed notes in which you can specify a target machine as well as a target process? with special agents on the local host which can dial the remote machine to send it the note, and kernel daemon note forwarders which can accept notes from remote machines destined for local processes and... and.. you run up the list of necessary (and required) services as quickly as portmap, rpc.idmapd and friends from nfs-land :) rmnoteproc() as implemented in cpu.c is just about the simplest way to do such a thing. it only requires one thing: the remote tree mounted in /mnt/term (which really is the clever bit). unfortunately we've been dealing with complexity in the non-plan9 world for so long that we are unable to appreciate anything unless it requires a huge deal of effort to comprehend :)
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 23:38 +, C H Forsyth wrote: And even we we stick with the resources as regular files approach on the client you're stuck with mostly POSIX environment + locking (+caching). POSIX means symlink(2) and mknod(2) no, because (unless i've misunderstood) they are accessing resources (as regular files) on a remote server, and symbolic links and outdated major/minor are irrelevant and not needed. Agreed. That's why I didn't include this bit in the main set of requirements. But wouldn't you agree that files kept on a remote POSIX file system is an important and common class of remotes resources for which we don't quite have a consensus on how to use 9P? We have at least three different attempts at solving that: 9P2000.u, Skip's Text/Rext and a parallel tree approach, but no consensus(*) Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
But wouldn't you agree that files kept on a remote POSIX file system is an important and common class of remotes resources for which we don't quite have a consensus on how to use 9P? yes, but both your examples are things of purely local significance. the symbolic links point to something local (or not), and the major/minor numbers are decidedly only local (since they index a kernel's data structures!). so: access the things they refer to. sorry, to which they refer.
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Roman V. Shaposhnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have at least three different attempts at solving that: 9P2000.u, Skip's Text/Rext and a parallel tree approach, but no consensus(*) four. My original v9fs added 3 ops for supporting symlinks and hardlinks. There was no option. ron
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:19 PM, ron minnich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Roman V. Shaposhnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have at least three different attempts at solving that: 9P2000.u, Skip's Text/Rext and a parallel tree approach, but no consensus(*) four. My original v9fs added 3 ops for supporting symlinks and hardlinks. There was no option. Soon to be 5. 9P.L coming soon to the dismay of Uriels everywhere... -eric
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 00:14 +, Charles Forsyth wrote: But wouldn't you agree that files kept on a remote POSIX file system is an important and common class of remotes resources for which we don't quite have a consensus on how to use 9P? yes, but both your examples are things of purely local significance. Sorry I'm confused, which examples are you talking about? Anyway, for the sake of this conversation lets focus on: using 9P as the means to access files on a remote POSIX filesystem. the symbolic links point to something local (or not), and the major/minor numbers are decidedly only local (since they index a kernel's data structures!). sorry, to which they refer. This approach seems to be flawed on two accounts: 1. it forces the server to resolve symlinks and special nodes, without an option for the client to do the same. That prevents cross-tree symlinks and nodes as the points of rendezvous *on the client*. IOW, the following will not work: $ mknod imported FS/test p $ echo test imported FS/test cat imported FS/test I can buy a point of view that reading on a node that happens to be a character device should really bring the data from the remote server's device attached to that node. However, that point of view is much more difficult to sell for FIFOs. 2. It doesn't let manipulate these special files. IOW, readlink(2) fails and so does mknod(2)/symlink(2). For the practical application of 9P a failing symlink(2) is a big source of problems. In fact, why does my build fail was the first question that people asked me once I demonstrated my prototype of drawterm written in Java. It fails because it tries to symlink within a tree that is exported. Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] success with 9vx from a terminal
I would like to be able to import the /proc (or similar) filesystem from the remote machine and bind it over the files that my local kernel uses to send notes to the proxy process. That's how my ideal world model would work. Observe how that was also the first suggestion on the notes thief thread. Do you think it is a coincidence? if /proc is your only concern ask Jim or somebody else at BL to release the description of the original (plan9-only) cut of XCPU by Vic Zandy. I can't find my copy of it anymore and I don't remember if that information was releasable or not, but in short it was a modified p9 kernel that allowed you to start and control processes on multiple cpu servers at the same time. I don't remember if the solution for note sending across machines was novel. I seem to remember that in this case processes were addressed by node/pid.
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
Why does your build fail? Lack of vision to the extreme resulting in a completely horrible way of building things that has grew and grew to something that not even its mother could not love. In some sense it's good that it fails. If you want to build things that way then don't use plan9. Seriously. The simplest program is now entangled in the most horrendous config/build mess. Why? Because that's how you do things. No!!! Hideous, horrible! - as a friend at the Labs would shout (not about CS, he was a physicist). As for mknod, I don't think it's worth trying to keep that alive, let alone breaking plan9 to do it. brucee On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:00 AM, Roman V. Shaposhnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 00:14 +, Charles Forsyth wrote: But wouldn't you agree that files kept on a remote POSIX file system is an important and common class of remotes resources for which we don't quite have a consensus on how to use 9P? yes, but both your examples are things of purely local significance. Sorry I'm confused, which examples are you talking about? Anyway, for the sake of this conversation lets focus on: using 9P as the means to access files on a remote POSIX filesystem. the symbolic links point to something local (or not), and the major/minor numbers are decidedly only local (since they index a kernel's data structures!). sorry, to which they refer. This approach seems to be flawed on two accounts: 1. it forces the server to resolve symlinks and special nodes, without an option for the client to do the same. That prevents cross-tree symlinks and nodes as the points of rendezvous *on the client*. IOW, the following will not work: $ mknod imported FS/test p $ echo test imported FS/test cat imported FS/test I can buy a point of view that reading on a node that happens to be a character device should really bring the data from the remote server's device attached to that node. However, that point of view is much more difficult to sell for FIFOs. 2. It doesn't let manipulate these special files. IOW, readlink(2) fails and so does mknod(2)/symlink(2). For the practical application of 9P a failing symlink(2) is a big source of problems. In fact, why does my build fail was the first question that people asked me once I demonstrated my prototype of drawterm written in Java. It fails because it tries to symlink within a tree that is exported. Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
* Roman V. Shaposhnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: P.S. On a similar note I'd like to add that the requirement outlined above seem to be quite typical in today's world. See, on one hand new kind of resources (take flickr or youtube as an example) are very Actually, I've got flickr-9P on my 2do-list (but still lacking time for it yet). And my media hosting platform will also get an 9P interface. Not an impossible thing to articulate (as some of the responses I've got to my earlier question indicated -- thank you guys!) but a difficult one. Why? Well, because the next question you get from the maintainers is: who can import our resources using 9P on the client side? Perhaps someone should sit down and write an win32 driver for it ;-) Linux has 9P support, BSD too (IMHO). And also some common userland apps like Midnight Commander (not in mainline yet, but that's coming). I wish 9p:// URL worked out of the box in Firefox, but it doesn't. I've did some pieces for Seamonkey. (but not stable yet). It is also not supported by JDK C#. That's under way, feel free to jump on the train :) Maybe, once I've got jmixp up and running, I'll port it to flex ;-o cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
* Charles Forsyth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So we IMHO should learn from all the big community projects how to attract people and get them involved with minimal effort. It's not for us, it's for them ... i know, but have you spoken to the auther of the comment below: Mozilla folks aren't very open to innovation (no matter how old/mature this innovation already is), but at least I've still got some hope ;) hey! it was you! I didn't say we should learn from Mozilla ... ;-o that's more my experience with Apache and Perl, so far, and not even for `innovation', just getting their stuff going on Windows. Yeah, they're even incapable of writing clean makefiles ;-o cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
Actually, I've got flickr-9P on my 2do-list [ ... ] Is there any hope of re-winding the clock back to some time pre- September?
Re: [9fans] yes, comcast really *does* suck
* Eris Discordia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess because terms of service for a home user do not cover serving from the user's site. Ron Minnich said it's his home machine so I assume he has paid for a plan with the word home somewhere in the plan title or the ToS. ISPs like to distinguish servers from clients so that they can safely cram as many little clients into one big channel as possible. Yeah, that's this kind of ISP which shits on net neutrality and other fundamental concepts of the internet. Such traitors deserve their routes deannounced from time to time (route flapping can be a nice game ;-o). A dial-up ISP I once bought services from used to block ICMP. When I complained they said it was to safeguard the users against Smurf attacks. I knew it was to safeguard themselves against users snooping into their poorly configured internal network. I went as far as getting a prompt from one of their routers--it had a never-configured telnet server running--but I didn't know what to do next. It was no use anyway. Why didn't you just try out the factory settings and fix the problem by yourself ? ;-O cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
* Robert Raschke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:26 AM, Enrico Weigelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * sqweek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone has write access to the plan 9 wiki. hmm, perhaps I didn't look hard enough, but I didn't see anything like an edit button etc ... ;-o Put in Acme Wiki. Just curious: does this also work w/ p9p (don't have native Plan9 running) ? What exactly do I have to type in ? thx -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ cellphone: +49 174 7066481 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Enrico Weigelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Robert Raschke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 6:26 AM, Enrico Weigelt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * sqweek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone has write access to the plan 9 wiki. hmm, perhaps I didn't look hard enough, but I didn't see anything like an edit button etc ... ;-o Put in Acme Wiki. Just curious: does this also work w/ p9p (don't have native Plan9 running) ? What exactly do I have to type in ? Nope, it's not included with p9p. Might be in 9vx, but I haven't checked. You can still mount the wiki of course, but I couldn't tell you how to edit it without the acme interface. http://netlib.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/4/wikifs probably can. See http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/rc/bin/9fs and http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/lib/ndb/common for the rest of the puzzle. -sqweek
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
We have at least three different attempts at solving that: 9P2000.u, Skip's Text/Rext and a parallel tree approach, but no consensus(*) Text/Rext are Bruce's idea which he prototyped for Styx. i might have asked for something more crude to deal with lock requests.
Re: [9fans] Do we have a catalog of 9P servers?
Perhaps someone should sit down and write an win32 driver for it ;-) there is one.
