The OCP bar is being raised

[dgoulet]

Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:

---
Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement 
 
A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional
Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of
respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified
Professionals-Database Administrators. 

To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional
achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers
worldwide): 

The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification
requiring successful completion of two exams.
The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle
Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam
on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
Visit
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html
for more information

IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001

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RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Karniotis, Stephen]

To be honest, I think this is actually lowering the bar.  Oracle finally
realized that the OCP has no value to an organization unless you induce the
word "Master".  This has been taken from their former certification, the
Oracle Master's Certification, which was worthless and only showed that you
had taken all of the courses within a specific track.

Oracle is simply acting like any other software vendor and locating new ways
of generating revenue. 

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Technical Alliance Manager
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:www.compuware.com


 -Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:        The OCP bar is being raised

Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:


---
Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP)
Achievement 
 
A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of
Professional
Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58%
of
respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle
Certified
Professionals-Database Administrators. 

To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of
professional
achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java
Developers
worldwide): 

The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification
requiring successful completion of two exams.
The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle
Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum
exam
on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
Visit
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm
l
for more information

IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001


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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
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Author: Karniotis, Stephen
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RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Bowes, Chris]

Title: RE: The OCP bar is being raised





I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements for each.  You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get the OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it.  Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.

From the website:


--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required
-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, 
--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, 
--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By 
--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the
-- Oracle Certified Professional credential. 



--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams 
--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. 



--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle 
--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential 
--requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from 
--the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. 



--Chris



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: The OCP bar is being raised



Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:

---
Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement 
 
A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional
Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of
respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified
Professionals-Database Administrators. 


To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional
achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java Developers
worldwide): 


The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification
requiring successful completion of two exams.
The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle
Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam
on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
Visit
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html
for more information


IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001

-
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[SARKAR, Samir]

Title: RE: The OCP bar is being raised



Chris,
 
Am not clear on  this. 
To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? So, if we get 
the
OCP Associate after passing 
2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams for getting 
OCP
or do we have to go through 
all the 5 exams all over again ??
 
I think we can directly sit 
for the OCP tests though instead of going through the OCA. But to get 
the
OCP Master, we will 
necessarily have to b a OCP.
 
Do correct me if I am wrong 
though.
 
Regards,
Samir
 
Samir Sarkar 
Oracle DBA - Lennon 
Team SchlumbergerSema 
Email :  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]     
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 
EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 
Ext. 76217 Fax 
: +44 (0) 115 - 957 
6018    


  -Original Message-From: Bowes, Chris 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 10 January 2002 
  15:05To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
  RE: The OCP bar is being raised
  I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the 
  requirements for each.  You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we 
  would first have to get the OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level 
  cert we have to have it.  Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  
  Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these 
  REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams 
  or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach 
  from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 
  other certs that have no value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this 
  is nothing but a money grab.
  From the website: 
  --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams 
  required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your 
  selected job role. Typically, --two exams are 
  required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By 
  --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way 
  toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional 
  credential. 
  --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass 
  all required exams --in your selected job role, 
  including those at the Associate level. 
  --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an 
  Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, 
  achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two 
  advanced level Oracle University courses from --the 
  list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. 
  
  --Chris 
  -Original Message- From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: 
  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP 
  bar is being raised 
  Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about 
  time:  
  --- Introducing two new levels of 
  Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement   A recent *IDC report on IT Education and 
  Training Services quoted database professionals and 
  network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional 
  Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on 
  Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very 
  difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. 
  To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new 
  levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon 
  to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): 
  The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle 
  qualification requiring successful completion of two 
  exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an 
  advanced qualification for Oracle Certified 
  Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam 
  on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
  Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html 
  for more information 
  IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 
   
  - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author:   INET: 
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This email is confidential and

Re: The OCP bar is being raised

[Ron Rogers]

Dick,
 I see value in the addition of the two levels of 
certification. 
 With the addition of the OCA certification it will allow 
"junior" DBA's to start on the read to successful certification. Learning and 
understanding the basics of SQL and ADMIN should be promoted, displayed, and 
rewarded. It is akin to the Associates Degree that is usually acquired before 
the B.S. and continuing education towards the Ph.D.
 The addition of the OCM is a way to promote yourself as 
a seasoned professional that has taken the time to learn the ins and outs of the 
database and can be a valuable asset to a company.
The new levels of certification will allow the employer to 
search for employees with at least a minimum certification 
requirement.
 I know that there are a LOT of professionals working as 
DBA's, and participate on this list, that are very good and OCM qualified but 
have not decided to become an OCP. Their reasons are their own and  I look 
proudly upon their achievements and ethics.
 
On the other hand... With the ability to take 2 tests and get 
an OCA , 5 test to get an OCP, and take 2 additional courses plus a practicum 
exam and you are a OCM. The requirements list that you take the courses at the 
Oracle training centers. Sounds like a way to keep the Oracle training centers 
alive. The one in Atlanta is a ghost town compared to 5 years ago.
 Thanks for the update info.
Ron
ROR mª¿ªm
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/10/02 09:15AM 
>>>Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about 
time:---Introducing 
two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement A 
recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted 
databaseprofessionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of 
ProfessionalCertification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on 
Certification, 58% ofrespondents said that it is very difficult to find 
qualified Oracle CertifiedProfessionals-Database Administrators. To 
meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of 
professionalachievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and 
Java Developersworldwide): The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- 
an entry-level Oracle qualificationrequiring successful completion of two 
exams.The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for 
OracleCertified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a 
practicum examon-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
Visithttp://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htmlfor 
more informationIDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001crn.com, 
Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 
2001--- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com-- Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network 
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Diego, California    -- Public Internet 
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ListsTo 
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other information (like subscribing).

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Boivin, Patrice J]

They offered the Oracle Master certification before, I was told from Oracle
Canada two years ago that to earn it one had to have taken courses
specifically from Oracle.

I asked because they offered NT Core Technologies, and I had taken the same
course from a Microsoft-certified training center.

I met all the requirements to move on toward the Masters certificate, but
when they realized I had taken courses on NT from Microsoft, they told me I
could never "earn" the Masters Certificate.

I was rather annoyed with Oracle Education for that, why would NT Core
Technologies from Microsoft be different from NT Core Technologies from
Oracle Education - the course titles were identical.  It seemed to me that
this Masters certificate was just a carrot to encourage people to purchase
more instructor-led training.

They had similar tracks for Solaris and HP-UX, I wonder if their attitude
was the same re. courses (with identical names) offered by Sun or HP
certified training centers.

I think this is a good move, to split up the OCP certifications - of course
that may mean more people will sign up to write exams.

Rather than using the OCP exams to verify whether you remember how to use
the latest features from a particular release, I wish the OCP would rather
concentrate on practical database administration issues - in some cases the
"new features" don't work properly, or are not used in real-world
environments.  They should include questions about new features, but not put
so much emphasis on them.

Questions about securing databases come to mind, it would be nice to have
more of those in the OCP exams.
Questions covering the most common reasons for databases failures
Questions covering the most common generic TARs that people log
Etc.

Just my $0.02.  I can't help it...

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

-Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:16 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:    The OCP bar is being raised

Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:


---
Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP)
Achievement 
 
A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of
Professional
Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58%
of
respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle
Certified
Professionals-Database Administrators. 

To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of
professional
achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java
Developers
worldwide): 

The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification
requiring successful completion of two exams.
The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle
Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum
exam
on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
Visit
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm
l
for more information

IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001


-
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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
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Author: Boivin, Patrice J
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RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Bowes, Chris]

Title: Message



From 
the website:
--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all 
required exams --in your selected job role, including 
those at the Associate level. 
 
The 
way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get the 
OCP.  So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass the OCA, 
you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognition and you cannot even take 
the OCM.
 
--Chris
 

  
  -Original Message-From: SARKAR, Samir 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 
  January 10, 2002 10:28 AMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Cc: 
  '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being 
  raised
  Chris,
   
  Am not clear on  
  this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? So, if we get 
  the
  OCP Associate after 
  passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams for getting 
  OCP
  or do we have to go 
  through all the 5 exams all over again ??
   
  I think we can directly 
  sit for the OCP tests though instead of going through the OCA. But to get 
  the
  OCP Master, we will 
  necessarily have to b a OCP.
   
  Do correct me if I am 
  wrong though.
   
  Regards,
  Samir
   
  Samir Sarkar 
  Oracle DBA - Lennon 
  Team SchlumbergerSema Email :  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]     
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 
  EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 
  6418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 
  6018    
  
  
-Original Message-From: Bowes, Chris 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 10 January 2002 
15:05To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: 
    RE: The OCP bar is being raised
I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the 
requirements for each.  You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we 
would first have to get the OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry 
level cert we have to have it.  Then, and only then, can we take the 
OCP.  Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take 
these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve 
Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably 
teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after 
getting 2 other certs that have no value to them.  Call me a cynic, but 
to me, this is nothing but a money grab.
From the website: 
--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams 
required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your 
selected job role. Typically, --two exams are 
required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By 
--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way 
toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified 
Professional credential. 
--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass 
all required exams --in your selected job role, 
including those at the Associate level. 
--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an 
Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, 
achieving your OCM credential --requires attending 
two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum 
exam. 
--Chris 
-Original Message- From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: 
Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The 
OCP bar is being raised 
Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about 
time:  
--- Introducing two new levels of 
Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement   A recent *IDC report on IT Education 
and Training Services quoted database professionals 
and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional 
Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on 
Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is 
very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. 
To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new 
levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon 
to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): 
The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level 
Oracle qualification requiring successful completion 
of two exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- 
an advanced qualification for Oracle Certified 
Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam 
on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html 
for more information 
IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 
-

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Khedr, Waleed]

OCP, OCA, OCM, OCD = ?

How can you bring money?

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:


---
Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP)
Achievement 
 
A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of
Professional
Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58%
of
respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle
Certified
Professionals-Database Administrators. 

To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of
professional
achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java
Developers
worldwide): 

The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification
requiring successful completion of two exams.
The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle
Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum
exam
on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
Visit
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm
l
for more information

IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001


-
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Khedr, Waleed
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[SARKAR, Samir]

Title: Message



H...so all we have 
to do is appear for 2 exams and get OCA and then appear for 
the
remaining 3 exams and 
upgrade ourselves to OCP...or do we need to take all the 5 exams 

all over again 
??
 
Samir
 
Samir Sarkar 
Oracle DBA - Lennon 
Team SchlumbergerSema 
Email :  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]     
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 
EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 
Ext. 76217 Fax 
: +44 (0) 115 - 957 
6018    


  -Original Message-From: Bowes, Chris 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 10 January 2002 
  15:35To: SARKAR, Samir; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Cc: Bowes, 
  ChrisSubject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised
  From 
  the website:
  --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass 
  all required exams --in your selected job role, 
  including those at the Associate level. 
   
  The 
  way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get the 
  OCP.  So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass the 
  OCA, you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognition and you cannot 
  even take the OCM.
   
  --Chris
   
  

-Original Message-From: SARKAR, Samir 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 
January 10, 2002 10:28 AMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Cc: 
'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being 
raised
Chris,
 
Am not clear on  
this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? So, if we get 
the
OCP Associate after 
passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams for getting 
OCP
or do we have to go 
through all the 5 exams all over again ??
 
I think we can directly 
sit for the OCP tests though instead of going through the OCA. But to get 
the
OCP Master, we will 
necessarily have to b a OCP.
 
Do correct me if I am 
wrong though.
 
Regards,
Samir
 
Samir Sarkar 
Oracle DBA - Lennon 
Team SchlumbergerSema 
Email :  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]     
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217 
EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 
6418 Ext. 76217 Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 
6018    


  -Original Message-From: Bowes, Chris 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 10 January 2002 
  15:05To: Multiple recipients of list 
      ORACLE-LSubject: RE: The OCP bar is being 
  raised
  I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the 
  requirements for each.  You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we 
  would first have to get the OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry 
  level cert we have to have it.  Then, and only then, can we take the 
  OCP.  Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we 
  take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber 
  of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they 
  could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and 
  that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them.  Call 
  me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.
  From the website: 
  --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams 
  required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your 
  selected job role. Typically, --two exams are 
  required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. 
  By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are 
  half-way toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified 
  Professional credential. 
  --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must 
  pass all required exams --in your selected job 
  role, including those at the Associate level. 
  --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be 
  an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, 
  achieving your OCM credential --requires attending 
  two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum 
  exam. 
  --Chris 
  -Original Message- From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP bar is being raised 
  Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about 
  time:  
  --- Introducing two new levels of 
  Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement   A recent *IDC report on IT Education 
  and Training Services quoted database professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of 
  Professional Certification. And in an October 
  survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle 
  Certified Professionals-Databa

Re: The OCP bar is being raised

[orantdba]

Title: RE: The OCP bar is being raised



Hmmm,

Imagine that,  a publicly traded company that it trying to make money, I
am shocked
dismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight.  

Chris,  could you provide me with the list of companies that are not trying
to make money?
I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn their products.

John :-)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements
for each.  You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get
the OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it. 
Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can we take
the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed. 
So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money
in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get
certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value
to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.
  From the website:
  --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams
required
  -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role.
Typically, 
  --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via
the Internet, 
  --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment.
By 
  --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward
achieving the
  -- Oracle Certified Professional credential. 
  
  --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must
pass all required exams 
  --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate
level. 
  
  --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first
be an Oracle 
  --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM
credential 
  --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University
courses from 
  --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM
Practicum exam. 
  
  --Chris
  
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: The OCP bar is being raised
  
  Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about
time:
  
  ---
  Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional
(OCP) Achievement 
   
  A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services
quoted database
  professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing
areas of Professional
  Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on
Certification, 58% of
  respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified
Oracle Certified
  Professionals-Database Administrators. 
  To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two
new levels of professional
  achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application
and Java Developers
  worldwide): 
  The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level
Oracle qualification
  requiring successful completion of two exams.
  The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification
for Oracle
  Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to
take a practicum exam
  on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
  Visit
  
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html
  
  for more information
  IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
  crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001
  
  -
  -- 
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: 
http://www.orafaq.com
  
  -- 
  Author: 
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 538-5051  FAX:
(858) 538-5051
  San Diego, California    -- Public Internet access /
Mailing Lists
  
  To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail
message
  to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru')
and in
  the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
  (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). 
You may
  also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  
  
  
  

Re:RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[dgoulet]

Well, A number of folks have weighed in on this matter & I appreciate each point
of view, especially those about Oracle Education just trying to justify itself. 
What IMHO is good in this is the praticum exam.  It lends a true degree of
certified hands on professionalism to the certificate, not just theory.


Dick Goulet
Reply Separator
Author: "Boivin; Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/10/2002 7:25 AM

They offered the Oracle Master certification before, I was told from Oracle
Canada two years ago that to earn it one had to have taken courses
specifically from Oracle.

I asked because they offered NT Core Technologies, and I had taken the same
course from a Microsoft-certified training center.

I met all the requirements to move on toward the Masters certificate, but
when they realized I had taken courses on NT from Microsoft, they told me I
could never "earn" the Masters Certificate.

I was rather annoyed with Oracle Education for that, why would NT Core
Technologies from Microsoft be different from NT Core Technologies from
Oracle Education - the course titles were identical.  It seemed to me that
this Masters certificate was just a carrot to encourage people to purchase
more instructor-led training.

They had similar tracks for Solaris and HP-UX, I wonder if their attitude
was the same re. courses (with identical names) offered by Sun or HP
certified training centers.

I think this is a good move, to split up the OCP certifications - of course
that may mean more people will sign up to write exams.

Rather than using the OCP exams to verify whether you remember how to use
the latest features from a particular release, I wish the OCP would rather
concentrate on practical database administration issues - in some cases the
"new features" don't work properly, or are not used in real-world
environments.  They should include questions about new features, but not put
so much emphasis on them.

Questions about securing databases come to mind, it would be nice to have
more of those in the OCP exams.
Questions covering the most common reasons for databases failures
Questions covering the most common generic TARs that people log
Etc.

Just my $0.02.  I can't help it...

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

-Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:16 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:


---
Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP)
Achievement 
 
A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of
Professional
Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58%
of
respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle
Certified
Professionals-Database Administrators. 

To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of
professional
achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java
Developers
worldwide): 

The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification
requiring successful completion of two exams.
The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle
Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum
exam
on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
Visit
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm
l
for more information

IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001


-
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Joe Raube]

Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and want to be called a 
'master'
just need to take the 2 required courses and then the OCM exam.

When looking at the details, they just split the previous 5 exam OCP into 
two tiers,
a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as a prerequisite.

The Oracle Master was always available, but without a test -- it just
required taking ILT courses. They just added a practicum exam to
make the OCM cert.

I can see your point about this being a 'money grab', but the only new item
here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else existed for 8 and 8i.

-Joe

At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote:

>I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements for each.  You 
>can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get the 
>OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have 
>it.  Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can we 
>take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle 
>Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend 
>money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they 
>can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no 
>value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.
>
> From the website:
>
>--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required
>-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically,
>--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet,
>--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By
>--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the
>-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
>
>--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required 
>exams
>--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level.
>
>--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle
>--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential
>--requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from
>--the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam.
>
>--Chris
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: The OCP bar is being raised
>
>Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:
> 
>
>---
>Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement
>
>A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
>professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of 
>Professional
>Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 
>58% of
>respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified
>Professionals-Database Administrators.
>
>To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of 
>professional
>achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java 
>Developers
>worldwide):
>
>The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification
>requiring successful completion of two exams.
>The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle
>Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum 
>exam
>on-sitee at an Oracle University education center.
>Visit
><http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html>http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html
> 
>
>for more information
>
>IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
>crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001
> 
>
>-
>--
>Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: 
><http://www.orafaq.com>http://www.orafaq.com
>--
>Author:
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
>San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
>
>To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
>to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Deshpande, Kirti]

Some correction.. Please... 

>>>>> and only showed that you had taken all of the courses within a
specific track.
and only showed that you had paid for all the courses within a specific
track and were present for 1st and the last day of the courses.

(
 1st Day :  to make sure your name was spelled correctly. 
 Last Day:  to get your Certificate/Diploma and Instructor's signature.
)

- Kirti

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:05 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


To be honest, I think this is actually lowering the bar.  Oracle finally
realized that the OCP has no value to an organization unless you induce the
word "Master".  This has been taken from their former certification, the
Oracle Master's Certification, which was worthless and only showed that you
had taken all of the courses within a specific track.

Oracle is simply acting like any other software vendor and locating new ways
of generating revenue. 

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Technical Alliance Manager
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:www.compuware.com


 -Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:The OCP bar is being raised

Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:


---
Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP)
Achievement 
 
A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of
Professional
Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58%
of
respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle
Certified
Professionals-Database Administrators. 

To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of
professional
achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java
Developers
worldwide): 

The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification
requiring successful completion of two exams.
The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle
Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum
exam
on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
Visit
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm
l
for more information

IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001


-
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: 
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Deshpande, Kirti
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Richard Ji]

Oh yeah, that's absolutly the idea behind it.  For Oracle to grab more money.
Personally I never gave a crap about certification.  We don't need an entity like
Oracle or MS to tell us how much we know.  We learn stuff because we love to
not because of the certificates.  Yes, I do know the benefits of having a certificate
but I think the companies are taken it too far with all those "You must ... blah blah"
requirements.

Why don't they just say "You must pay $10,000" and we will give you a certificate.

Richard Ji

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/10/02 10:05AM >>>
I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements for each.  You
can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get the OCA.
Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it.  Then, and
only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can we take the OCM and
that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.  So someone the
caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that
they could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and
that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them.  Call me a
cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.

>From the website:

--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required
-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically, 
--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, 
--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By 
--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the
-- Oracle Certified Professional credential. 


--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required
exams 
--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level. 


--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle 
--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential 
--requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from 
--the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. 


--Chris


-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:


---
Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP)
Achievement 
 
A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of
Professional
Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58%
of
respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle
Certified
Professionals-Database Administrators. 

To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of
professional
achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java
Developers
worldwide): 

The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification
requiring successful completion of two exams.
The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle
Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum
exam
on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
Visit
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm 
l
for more information

IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001


-
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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
Author: 
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--
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--
Author: Richard Ji
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Ken Janusz]

Title: RE: The OCP bar is being raised








ENRON

 

-Original
Message-
From: orantdba
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002
9:36 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: The OCP bar is being
raised

 

Hmmm,

Imagine that,  a publicly traded company that it trying to make money, I
am shocked
dismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight.  

Chris,  could you provide me with the list of companies that are not
trying to make money?
I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn their products.

John :-)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



I'd say the
cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements for each.  You can't
just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get the OCA. 
Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have it.  Then, and
only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can we take the OCM
and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.  So
someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a
class that they could probably teach from memory before they can get
certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to
them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.

From the
website:

--To become
an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required
-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role.
Typically, 
--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet,

--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment.
By 
--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward
achieving the
-- Oracle Certified Professional credential. 

 

--To become
an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams 
--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate
level. 

 

--To become
an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle 
--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM
credential 
--requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses
from 
--the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum
exam. 

 

--Chris

 

-Original
Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] 
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: The OCP bar is being raised

 

Anyone care
to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:

---
Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP)
Achievement 
 
A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted
database
professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas
of Professional
Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on
Certification, 58% of
respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified
Oracle Certified
Professionals-Database Administrators. 

To meet this
demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of professional
achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and
Java Developers
worldwide): 

The Oracle
Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification
requiring successful completion of two exams.
The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for
Oracle
Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a
practicum exam
on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
Visit
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html

for more information

IDC, IT
Education and Training, Sept 2001
crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001

-
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com 
-- 
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You may
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RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Joe Raube]

If you already have the 8i OCP, there is a single upgrade exam to
become a 9i OCP.

I'm studying for it now.

-Joe

At 07:40 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>H...so all we have to do is appear for 2 exams and get OCA and 
>then appear for the
>remaining 3 exams and upgrade ourselves to OCP...or do we need to take 
>all the 5 exams
>all over again ??
>
>Samir
>
>Samir Sarkar
>Oracle DBA - Lennon Team
>SchlumbergerSema
>Email :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217
>EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217
>Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018
>-Original Message-
>From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: 10 January 2002 15:35
>To: SARKAR, Samir; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
>Cc: Bowes, Chris
>Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised
>
> From the website:
>
>--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required 
>exams
>--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level.
>
>The way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get the 
>OCP.  So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass the OCA, 
>you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognition and you cannot even take 
>the OCM.
>
>--Chris
>
>-Original Message-
>From: SARKAR, Samir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:28 AM
>To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
>Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
>Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised
>
>Chris,
>
>Am not clear on  this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? 
>So, if we get the
>OCP Associate after passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams 
>for getting OCP
>or do we have to go through all the 5 exams all over again ??
>
>I think we can directly sit for the OCP tests though instead of going 
>through the OCA. But to get the
>OCP Master, we will necessarily have to b a OCP.
>
>Do correct me if I am wrong though.
>
>Regards,
>Samir
>
>Samir Sarkar
>Oracle DBA - Lennon Team
>SchlumbergerSema
>Email :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217
>EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217
>Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018
>-Original Message-
>From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised
>
>I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements for each.  You 
>can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get the 
>OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have 
>it.  Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can we 
>take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle 
>Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend 
>money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they 
>can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no 
>value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.
> From the website:
>
>--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required
>-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically,
>--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet,
>--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By
>--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the
>-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
>--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required 
>exams
>--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level.
>--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle
>--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential
>--requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from
>--the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam.
>--Chris
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: The OCP bar is being raised
>
>Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:
> 
>
>---
>Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) 
>Achievement
>
>A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
>professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of 
>Professional
>Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Kimberly Smith]

Title: RE: The OCP bar is being raised



Actually, looks like to me that they simply revised 
their Masters program.  Its exactly
the 
same requirements except they now added an exam at the end.  Not to 
many
folks 
were going after the Master level except for the actual Oracle 
employees.

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bowes, ChrisSent: 
  Thursday, January 10, 2002 7:05 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: The OCP bar is being 
  raised
  I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the 
  requirements for each.  You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we 
  would first have to get the OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level 
  cert we have to have it.  Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  
  Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take these 
  REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams 
  or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably teach 
  from memory before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 
  other certs that have no value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this 
  is nothing but a money grab.
  From the website: 
  --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams 
  required -- for the Oracle Associate level of your 
  selected job role. Typically, --two exams are 
  required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By 
  --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way 
  toward achieving the -- Oracle Certified Professional 
  credential. 
  --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass 
  all required exams --in your selected job role, 
  including those at the Associate level. 
  --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an 
  Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, 
  achieving your OCM credential --requires attending two 
  advanced level Oracle University courses from --the 
  list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam. 
  
  --Chris 
  -Original Message- From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM To: 
  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: The OCP 
  bar is being raised 
  Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about 
  time:  
  --- Introducing two new levels of 
  Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement   A recent *IDC report on IT Education and 
  Training Services quoted database professionals and 
  network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of Professional 
  Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on 
  Certification, 58% of respondents said that it is very 
  difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified Professionals-Database Administrators. 
  To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new 
  levels of professional achievement to DBAs (and soon 
  to be released to Application and Java Developers worldwide): 
  The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle 
  qualification requiring successful completion of two 
  exams. The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an 
  advanced qualification for Oracle Certified 
  Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum exam 
  on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
  Visit http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html 
  for more information 
  IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001 crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001 
   
  - -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- 
  Author:   INET: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 
  538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, 
  California    -- Public Internet access 
  / Mailing Lists  
  To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail 
  message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling 
  of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line 
  containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing 
  list you want to be removed from).  You may also 
  send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). 

Re: The OCP bar is being raised

[orantdba]

Title: Message



Hi all,

The oca exams are the same exams you would take on the way to being an OCP
under the current program.  The only difference is along the way you can
get a designation of OCA.  Not unlike Microsofts MCP.

John

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
>From  the website:
  --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must
pass all  required exams 
  --in your selected job role, including  those at the Associate
level. 
  
   
  
The  way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get the
 OCP.  So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass the OCA,
 you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognition and you cannot even take
 the OCM.
   
  
--Chris
   
  

-Original Message-
From: SARKAR, Samir[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Sent: Thursday,January 10, 2002 10:28 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Cc:'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
    Subject: RE: The OCP bar is beingraised


Chris,
 
Am not clear
on this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ?? So, if we
getthe
OCP Associate
afterpassing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams for getting
   OCP
or do we have
to gothrough all the 5 exams all over again ??
 
I think we can
directlysit for the OCP tests though instead of going through the OCA.
But to getthe
OCP Master,
we willnecessarily have to b a OCP.
 
Do correct me
if I amwrong though.
 
Regards,
Samir
 
Samir Sarkar
Oracle DBA - Lennon
   Team
Schlumberger
Sema
Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Phone : +44 (0) 115
- 95 76217
EPABX : +44 (0) 115
- 9576418 Ext. 76217
Fax : +44 (0) 115
- 9576018   

  
-Original Message-
  From: Bowes, Chris  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: 10 January 2002  15:05
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
      Subject:  RE: The OCP bar is being raised
  
  
  I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the  
   requirements for each.  You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we 
would first have to get the OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry  level
cert we have to have it.  Then, and only then, can we take the  OCP. 
Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take  these
REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve  Adams
or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably  
   teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after
 getting 2 other certs that have no value to them.  Call me a cynic,
but  to me, this is nothing but a money grab.
  From the website:
  --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the
exams  required
  -- for the Oracle Associate level of your  selected
job role. Typically, 
  --two exams are  required; the first one can be
taken via the Internet, 
  --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored
environment. By  
  --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way
 toward achieving the
  -- Oracle Certified  Professional credential. 
  
  --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you
must pass  all required exams 
  --in your selected job role,  including those at
the Associate level. 
  
  --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must
first be an  Oracle 
  --Certified Professional. Additionally,  achieving
your OCM credential 
  --requires attending  two advanced level Oracle
University courses from 
  --the list shown on this page as well as passing the
OCM Practicum  exam. 
  
  --Chris
  
  -Original Message-
  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
  To:  Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Subject: The  OCP bar is being raised
  
  Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's
about  time:
  
  ---
  Introducing two new levels of  Oracle Certified
Professional (OCP) Achievement 
   
  A recent *IDC report on IT Education  and Training
Services quoted database
  professionals  and network engineers as the fastest-growing
areas of Professional
  Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com
on  Certification, 58% of
  respondents said that it is  very difficult to find
qualified Oracle Certified
  Professionals-Database Administrators. 
  To meet this demand, we have recently introduced
two new  levels of professional
  achievement to DBAs (and soon  to be released to
Application and Java Developers
  worldwide): 
  The Oracle Certified Associa

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Bowes, Chris]

Title: Message



Wait a minute.  I never said it was bad for companies to make 
money.  My past posts on microsoft should have made that clear.  If 
Oracle can get away with it, then hey, more power to them.   My point 
was that they are trying to make this look oh so nice by saying "it's 
improved!  Look at the hoops you have to go to get the OCM, they have to be 
good".  When really all the new levels do is require more cash for the 
qualified people and allow bookworms to advance to a second level without 
experience.  Fortuneately I believe in the wonders of market forces.  
If enough people say, "yeah right, I got your OCM right here", it'll die.  
If not, then when I go for certificatinon, I'll see you in OCA 
101...   :)
 
--Chris
 
 

-Original Message-From: 
orantdba [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 
2002 10:36 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: Re: The OCP bar is being raised
Hmmm,Imagine that,  a 
  publicly traded company that it trying to make money, I am 
  shockeddismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight. 
   Chris,  could you provide me with the list of companies 
  that are not trying to make money?I want to make sure that I don't go to 
  work for them, or learn their products.John :-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the 
requirements for each.  You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we 
would first have to get the OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry 
level cert we have to have it.  Then, and only then, can we take the 
OCP.  Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we take 
these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve 
Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they could probably 
teach from memory before they can get certification and that is after 
getting 2 other certs that have no value to them.  Call me a cynic, but 
to me, this is nothing but a money grab.
From the website:
--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams 
required-- for the Oracle Associate level of your 
selected job role. Typically, --two exams are 
required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By 
--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way 
toward achieving the-- Oracle Certified Professional 
credential. 
--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass 
all required exams --in your selected job role, 
including those at the Associate level. 
--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an 
Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, 
achieving your OCM credential --requires attending 
two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum 
exam. 
--Chris
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] 
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 
AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: The OCP bar is being 
raised
Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about 
time:---Introducing two new levels of Oracle 
Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement  A recent *IDC report on IT Education 
and Training Services quoted databaseprofessionals 
and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of 
ProfessionalCertification. And in an October survey 
from *crn.com on Certification, 58% ofrespondents 
said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle 
CertifiedProfessionals-Database Administrators. 

To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new 
levels of professionalachievement to DBAs (and soon 
to be released to Application and Java Developersworldwide): 
The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level 
Oracle qualificationrequiring successful completion 
of two exams.The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an 
advanced qualification for OracleCertified 
Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum 
examon-sitee at an Oracle University education 
center. Visithttp://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html 
for more information
IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 
2001--- Please see 
the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author:   
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services    -- (858) 
538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051San Diego, 
California    -- Public Internet 
access / Mailing Lists-

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Bowes, Chris]

Title: RE: The OCP bar is being raised





Maybe I am completely misreading this.  However, I didn't see the 8 to 9 OCP upgrade and that is why I said, you'll have to take them over again.  If I am completely out to lunch and this is just a re-org of the Masters and OCP and those 8 OCP can get OCM with 2 classes and a test, then I apologize for wasting your time and bandwidth, but from what I read (and it was a quick read) even if you are 8 OCP, you still have to have the 9 OCA and OCP before you can get the 9 OCM.  

--Chris



-Original Message-
From: Joe Raube [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:41 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised



Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and want to be called a 
'master'
just need to take the 2 required courses and then the OCM exam.


When looking at the details, they just split the previous 5 exam OCP into 
two tiers,
a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as a prerequisite.


The Oracle Master was always available, but without a test -- it just
required taking ILT courses. They just added a practicum exam to
make the OCM cert.


I can see your point about this being a 'money grab', but the only new item
here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else existed for 8 and 8i.


-Joe


At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote:


>I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements for each.  You 
>can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get the 
>OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have 
>it.  Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can we 
>take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle 
>Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend 
>money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they 
>can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no 
>value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.
>
> From the website:
>
>--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required
>-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically,
>--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet,
>--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By
>--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the
>-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
>
>--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required 
>exams
>--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level.
>
>--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle
>--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential
>--requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from
>--the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam.
>
>--Chris
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: The OCP bar is being raised
>
>Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:
> 
>
>---
>Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement
>
>A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
>professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of 
>Professional
>Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification, 
>58% of
>respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle Certified
>Professionals-Database Administrators.
>
>To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of 
>professional
>achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java 
>Developers
>worldwide):
>
>The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle qualification
>requiring successful completion of two exams.
>The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for Oracle
>Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a practicum 
>exam
>on-sitee at an Oracle University education center.
>Visit
><http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html>http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html 

>
>for more information
>
>IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
>crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001
> 
>

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Viktor]

How many people outhere that you know do actually have
OCM. Not ORACLE employees.

Just curious...

Regards,

Viktor

--- "Bowes, Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maybe I am completely misreading this.  However, I
> didn't see the 8 to 9 OCP
> upgrade and that is why I said, you'll have to take
> them over again.  If I
> am completely out to lunch and this is just a re-org
> of the Masters and OCP
> and those 8 OCP can get OCM with 2 classes and a
> test, then I apologize for
> wasting your time and bandwidth, but from what I
> read (and it was a quick
> read) even if you are 8 OCP, you still have to have
> the 9 OCA and OCP before
> you can get the 9 OCM.  
> 
> --Chris
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:41 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and
> want to be called a 
> 'master'
> just need to take the 2 required courses and then
> the OCM exam.
> 
> When looking at the details, they just split the
> previous 5 exam OCP into 
> two tiers,
> a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as
> a prerequisite.
> 
> The Oracle Master was always available, but without
> a test -- it just
> required taking ILT courses. They just added a
> practicum exam to
> make the OCM cert.
> 
> I can see your point about this being a 'money
> grab', but the only new item
> here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else
> existed for 8 and 8i.
> 
> -Joe
> 
> At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the
> requirements for each.  You 
> >can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first
> have to get the 
> >OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert
> we have to have 
> >it.  Then, and only then, can we take the OCP. 
> Then and only then, can we 
> >take the OCM and that is after we take these
> REQUIRED classes from Oracle 
> >Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared
> Still, has to spend 
> >money in a class that they could probably teach
> from memory before they 
> >can get certification and that is after getting 2
> other certs that have no 
> >value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this is
> nothing but a money
> grab.
> >
> > From the website:
> >
> >--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the
> exams required
> >-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected
> job role. Typically,
> >--two exams are required; the first one can be
> taken via the Internet,
> >--while subsequent exams must be taken in a
> proctored environment. By
> >--completing your Oracle Associate, you are
> half-way toward achieving the
> >-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
> >
> >--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you
> must pass all required 
> >exams
> >--in your selected job role, including those at the
> Associate level.
> >
> >--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must
> first be an Oracle
> >--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving
> your OCM credential
> >--requires attending two advanced level Oracle
> University courses from
> >--the list shown on this page as well as passing
> the OCM Practicum exam.
> >
> >--Chris
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >Subject: The OCP bar is being raised
> >
> >Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's
> about time:
>
>---
> - 
> >
> >---
> >Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified
> Professional (OCP)
> Achievement
> >
> >A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training
> Services quoted database
> >professionals and network engineers as the
> fastest-growing areas of 
> >Professional
> >Certification. And in an October survey from
> *crn.com on Certification, 
> >58% of
> >respondents said that it is very difficult to find
> qualified Oracle
> Certified
> >Professionals-Database Administrators.
> >
> >To meet this demand, we have recently introduced
> two new levels of 
> >professional
> >achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to
> Application and Java 
> >Developers
> >worldwide):
> >
> >The Ora

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Joe Raube]

Here's the link:

http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/index.html?dba9i_upgrade.html

and here's the upgrade path:

http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/index.html?dba9i_track.html

"Oracle 7.3 to Oracle9i Upgrade Path (3 exams)
Candidates certified on Oracle 7.3 pass exam #1Z0-010 Oracle8: New Features 
for Administrators to upgrade to Oracle8, then #1Z0-020 Oracle8i: New 
Features for Administrators to upgrade to Oracle8i, and lastly exam 
#1Z0-030 Oracle9i: New Features for Administrators."

This would bring you to 9i OCP level.

-Joe

At 08:25 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Maybe I am completely misreading this.  However, I didn't see the 8 to 9 
>OCP upgrade and that is why I said, you'll have to take them over 
>again.  If I am completely out to lunch and this is just a re-org of the 
>Masters and OCP and those 8 OCP can get OCM with 2 classes and a test, 
>then I apologize for wasting your time and bandwidth, but from what I read 
>(and it was a quick read) even if you are 8 OCP, you still have to have 
>the 9 OCA and OCP before you can get the 9 OCM.
>
>--Chris
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Joe Raube [<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:41 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised
>
>Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and want to be called a
>'master'
>just need to take the 2 required courses and then the OCM exam.
>
>When looking at the details, they just split the previous 5 exam OCP into
>two tiers,
>a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as a prerequisite.
>
>The Oracle Master was always available, but without a test -- it just
>required taking ILT courses. They just added a practicum exam to
>make the OCM cert.
>
>I can see your point about this being a 'money grab', but the only new item
>here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else existed for 8 and 8i.
>
>-Joe
>
>At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements for each.  You
> >can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get the
> >OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have
> >it.  Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can we
> >take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle
> >Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend
> >money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they
> >can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no
> >value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money 
> grab.
> >
> > From the website:
> >
> >--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required
> >-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically,
> >--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet,
> >--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By
> >--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the
> >-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
> >
> >--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required
> >exams
> >--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level.
> >
> >--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle
> >--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential
> >--requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from
> >--the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam.
> >
> >--Chris
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [<<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >Subject: The OCP bar is being raised
> >
> >Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:
> >- 
> ---
> >
> >---
> >Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) 
> Achievement
> >
> >A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted database
> >professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of
> >Professional
> >Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on Certification,
> >58% of
> >respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle 
> Certified
> >Professionals-Database Administr

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Mohan, Ross]

I know some Oracle employees that have OCD.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


How many people outhere that you know do actually have
OCM. Not ORACLE employees.

Just curious...

Regards,

Viktor









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-- 
Author: Mohan, Ross
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RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Boivin, Patrice J]

Oracle employees typically get Oracle training for free, esp. during times
when they are "idle" - whenever THAT happens.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

-Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:        RE: The OCP bar is being raised

How many people outhere that you know do actually have
OCM. Not ORACLE employees.

Just curious...

Regards,

Viktor
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Joe Raube]

Well, there are at least 6 - from
http://www.tusc.com/oracle/news/20011203a.html

"Niemiec joins Dr. Paul Dorsey, David Ensor, Peter Koletzke, Scott Nelson 
and Jeremiah Wilton in the first group of Oracle Certified Masters to be 
recognized by Oracle Corp"

-Joe

At 09:15 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>How many people outhere that you know do actually have
>OCM. Not ORACLE employees.
>
>Just curious...
>
>Regards,
>
>Viktor
>
>--- "Bowes, Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Maybe I am completely misreading this.  However, I
> > didn't see the 8 to 9 OCP
> > upgrade and that is why I said, you'll have to take
> > them over again.  If I
> > am completely out to lunch and this is just a re-org
> > of the Masters and OCP
> > and those 8 OCP can get OCM with 2 classes and a
> > test, then I apologize for
> > wasting your time and bandwidth, but from what I
> > read (and it was a quick
> > read) even if you are 8 OCP, you still have to have
> > the 9 OCA and OCP before
> > you can get the 9 OCM.
> >
> > --Chris
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:41 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> > Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and
> > want to be called a
> > 'master'
> > just need to take the 2 required courses and then
> > the OCM exam.
> >
> > When looking at the details, they just split the
> > previous 5 exam OCP into
> > two tiers,
> > a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as
> > a prerequisite.
> >
> > The Oracle Master was always available, but without
> > a test -- it just
> > required taking ILT courses. They just added a
> > practicum exam to
> > make the OCM cert.
> >
> > I can see your point about this being a 'money
> > grab', but the only new item
> > here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else
> > existed for 8 and 8i.
> >
> > -Joe
> >
> > At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >
> > >I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the
> > requirements for each.  You
> > >can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first
> > have to get the
> > >OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert
> > we have to have
> > >it.  Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.
> > Then and only then, can we
> > >take the OCM and that is after we take these
> > REQUIRED classes from Oracle
> > >Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared
> > Still, has to spend
> > >money in a class that they could probably teach
> > from memory before they
> > >can get certification and that is after getting 2
> > other certs that have no
> > >value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this is
> > nothing but a money
> > grab.
> > >
> > > From the website:
> > >
> > >--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the
> > exams required
> > >-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected
> > job role. Typically,
> > >--two exams are required; the first one can be
> > taken via the Internet,
> > >--while subsequent exams must be taken in a
> > proctored environment. By
> > >--completing your Oracle Associate, you are
> > half-way toward achieving the
> > >-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
> > >
> > >--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you
> > must pass all required
> > >exams
> > >--in your selected job role, including those at the
> > Associate level.
> > >
> > >--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must
> > first be an Oracle
> > >--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving
> > your OCM credential
> > >--requires attending two advanced level Oracle
> > University courses from
> > >--the list shown on this page as well as passing
> > the OCM Practicum exam.
> > >
> > >--Chris
> > >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > >Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
> > >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > >Subject: The OCP bar is being raised
> > >
> > >Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's
> > about time:
> >
> >---
> > -
> > >
> > &

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Khedr, Waleed]

I'm OCSlave.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:46 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I know some Oracle employees that have OCD.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


How many people outhere that you know do actually have
OCM. Not ORACLE employees.

Just curious...

Regards,

Viktor









-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Mohan, Ross
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Ken Janusz]

I worked for Oracle for 14 months and then got laid off.  I got 7 weeks boot
camp for customizing & extending apps.  Then I also got another 6 weeks of
training.  They paid for all travel and I got my regular paycheck included.
It was a sweet deal.

Ken

 -Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:55 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: The OCP bar is being raised

Oracle employees typically get Oracle training for free, esp. during times
when they are "idle" - whenever THAT happens.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)

-Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:        RE: The OCP bar is being raised

How many people outhere that you know do actually have
OCM. Not ORACLE employees.

Just curious...

Regards,

Viktor
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Gary Weber]

Took the time and spent the money  - I'm an OCM (Enterprise Scalable mojo).
Haven't had a need to flash the certificate at any interviews thus far
(possibly because I haven't interviewed), so it's been mostly for self
gratification. I got the Master certificate last year, so didn't have to
take any exams, other then the standard 5 for OCP, simply attended the
classes. Btw, the minimum is three classes, with two being part of the path
you choose, and a third being mandatory Data Modeling. Or at least it was
that way last year.

I've been "Certified" since 8, but never bothered with 8i upgrade, and not
planning to spend (read: waste) time on 8i, 9i, etc.

Overall, I've found certification to be a useful experience, since during
the process I "uncovered" Oracle features which were new to me. It looks
good on a resume, but I hope that it never becomes a deciding factor.


Gary Weber
Senior DBA
Charles Jones, LLC||Superior Information Services, LLC
609-530-1144, ext 5529

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


How many people outhere that you know do actually have
OCM. Not ORACLE employees.

Just curious...

Regards,

Viktor

--- "Bowes, Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maybe I am completely misreading this.  However, I
> didn't see the 8 to 9 OCP
> upgrade and that is why I said, you'll have to take
> them over again.  If I
> am completely out to lunch and this is just a re-org
> of the Masters and OCP
> and those 8 OCP can get OCM with 2 classes and a
> test, then I apologize for
> wasting your time and bandwidth, but from what I
> read (and it was a quick
> read) even if you are 8 OCP, you still have to have
> the 9 OCA and OCP before
> you can get the 9 OCM.
>
> --Chris
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:41 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> Of course, those of us who already have the OCP and
> want to be called a
> 'master'
> just need to take the 2 required courses and then
> the OCM exam.
>
> When looking at the details, they just split the
> previous 5 exam OCP into
> two tiers,
> a 2 exam OCA, and a 2 exam OCP which has the OCA as
> a prerequisite.
>
> The Oracle Master was always available, but without
> a test -- it just
> required taking ILT courses. They just added a
> practicum exam to
> make the OCM cert.
>
> I can see your point about this being a 'money
> grab', but the only new item
> here is the OCM practicum exam -- everything else
> existed for 8 and 8i.
>
> -Joe
>
> At 07:05 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the
> requirements for each.  You
> >can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first
> have to get the
> >OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert
> we have to have
> >it.  Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.
> Then and only then, can we
> >take the OCM and that is after we take these
> REQUIRED classes from Oracle
> >Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared
> Still, has to spend
> >money in a class that they could probably teach
> from memory before they
> >can get certification and that is after getting 2
> other certs that have no
> >value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this is
> nothing but a money
> grab.
> >
> > From the website:
> >
> >--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the
> exams required
> >-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected
> job role. Typically,
> >--two exams are required; the first one can be
> taken via the Internet,
> >--while subsequent exams must be taken in a
> proctored environment. By
> >--completing your Oracle Associate, you are
> half-way toward achieving the
> >-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
> >
> >--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you
> must pass all required
> >exams
> >--in your selected job role, including those at the
> Associate level.
> >
> >--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must
> first be an Oracle
> >--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving
> your OCM credential
> >--requires attending two advanced level Oracle
> University courses from
> >--the list shown on this page as well as passing
> the OCM Practicum exam.
> >
> >--Chris
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >Subject: Th

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Ken Janusz]

Anyone CPIM?

Ken

 -Original Message-
Sent:   Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:23 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject:RE: The OCP bar is being raised

I'm OCSlave.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:46 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I know some Oracle employees that have OCD.

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 12:16 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


How many people outhere that you know do actually have
OCM. Not ORACLE employees.

Just curious...

Regards,

Viktor









-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: Mohan, Ross
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: The OCP bar is being raised

[Ruth Gramolini]

Should we parse you handle, O,rant, DBA. That's it!  R
- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:03 AM


> Hi all,
>
> The oca exams are the same exams you would take on the way to being an
> OCP under the current program.  The only difference is along the way you
> can get a designation of OCA.  Not unlike Microsofts MCP.
>
> John
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > From the website:
> >
> > --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all
> > required exams
> > --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level.
> >
> >
> >
> > The way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get
> > the OCP.  So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass
> > the OCA, you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognition and you
> > cannot even take the OCM.
> >
> >
> >
> > --Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: SARKAR, Samir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:28 AM
> > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> > Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> > Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> >
> >
> > Am not clear on  this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5
> > examsright ?? So, if we get the
> >
> > OCP Associate after passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another
> > 3 exams for getting OCP
> >
> > or do we have to go through all the 5 exams all over again ??
> >
> >
> >
> > I think we can directly sit for the OCP tests though instead of
> > going through the OCA. But to get the
> >
> > OCP Master, we will necessarily have to b a OCP.
> >
> >
> >
> > Do correct me if I am wrong though.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Samir
> >
> >
> >
> > Samir Sarkar
> > Oracle DBA - Lennon Team
> > Schlumberger Sema
> > Email :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217
> > EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217
> > Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised
> >
> > I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements
> > for each.  You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would
> > first have to get the OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry
> > level cert we have to have it.  Then, and only then, can we
> > take the OCP.  Then and only then, can we take the OCM and
> > that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.
> > So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to
> > spend money in a class that they could probably teach from
> > memory before they can get certification and that is after
> > getting 2 other certs that have no value to them.  Call me a
> > cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.
> >
> > From the website:
> >
> > --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams
required
> > -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role.
> > Typically,
> > --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the
> > Internet,
> > --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored
> > environment. By
> > --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward
> > achieving the
> > -- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
> >
> >
> > --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass
> > all required exams
> > --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate
> >     level.
> >
> >
> > --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an
> > Oracle
> > --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM
> > credential
> > --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University
> > courses from
> > --the list shown on this page as well as passing the

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Kimberly Smith]

Well, for that matter, if you have Oracle8 there is a single exam
to go to 8i.  Its always a single exam (until they change that for
more money:-)

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:09 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If you already have the 8i OCP, there is a single upgrade exam to
become a 9i OCP.

I'm studying for it now.

-Joe

At 07:40 AM 1/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>H...so all we have to do is appear for 2 exams and get OCA and
>then appear for the
>remaining 3 exams and upgrade ourselves to OCP...or do we need to take
>all the 5 exams
>all over again ??
>
>Samir
>
>Samir Sarkar
>Oracle DBA - Lennon Team
>SchlumbergerSema
>Email :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217
>EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217
>Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018
>-Original Message-
>From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: 10 January 2002 15:35
>To: SARKAR, Samir; '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
>Cc: Bowes, Chris
>Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised
>
> From the website:
>
>--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required
>exams
>--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level.
>
>The way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can get the
>OCP.  So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and pass the OCA,
>you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognition and you cannot even take
>the OCM.
>
>--Chris
>
>-Original Message-
>From: SARKAR, Samir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:28 AM
>To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
>Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
>Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised
>
>Chris,
>
>Am not clear on  this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5 examsright ??
>So, if we get the
>OCP Associate after passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another 3 exams
>for getting OCP
>or do we have to go through all the 5 exams all over again ??
>
>I think we can directly sit for the OCP tests though instead of going
>through the OCA. But to get the
>OCP Master, we will necessarily have to b a OCP.
>
>Do correct me if I am wrong though.
>
>Regards,
>Samir
>
>Samir Sarkar
>Oracle DBA - Lennon Team
>SchlumbergerSema
>Email :  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Phone : +44 (0) 115 - 95 76217
>EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217
>Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018
>-Original Message-
>From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raised
>
>I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements for each.  You
>can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get the
>OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have
>it.  Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can we
>take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle
>Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend
>money in a class that they could probably teach from memory before they
>can get certification and that is after getting 2 other certs that have no
>value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money
grab.
> From the website:
>
>--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required
>-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role. Typically,
>--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the Internet,
>--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. By
>--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward achieving the
>-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
>--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required
>exams
>--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level.
>--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle
>--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM credential
>--requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses from
>--the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum exam.
>--Chris
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>Subject: The OCP bar is being raised
>
>Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:
>---
-
>
>---
>Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP)
>Achievement
>
>A recent *

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Kimberly Smith]

Title: Message



Actually it is improved.  First off they really 
have not changed all that much.  They added an exam.  And its an 
exam
where 
you actually have to do stuff is my understanding.  That is a good 
thing.  As for the OCA.  Even that is not a 
new 
concept.  They always had a certified operator that was one exam.  Now 
its called something different and its two
exams.  But now you can actually use those exams 
to go to the next level if you want.  
 
All 
they need to do is improve on the quality of the testing to ensure that idiots 
cannot pass it.  However, you also should
not 
have to be a senior DBA to pass it.  A good solid DBA should be able to 
pass it easily.  That is what it should test
for.

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bowes, ChrisSent: 
  Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:09 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: RE: The OCP bar is being 
  raised
  Wait a minute.  I never said it was bad for companies to make 
  money.  My past posts on microsoft should have made that clear.  If 
  Oracle can get away with it, then hey, more power to them.   My 
  point was that they are trying to make this look oh so nice by saying "it's 
  improved!  Look at the hoops you have to go to get the OCM, they have to 
  be good".  When really all the new levels do is require more cash for the 
  qualified people and allow bookworms to advance to a second level without 
  experience.  Fortuneately I believe in the wonders of market 
  forces.  If enough people say, "yeah right, I got your OCM right here", 
  it'll die.  If not, then when I go for certificatinon, I'll see you in 
  OCA 101...   :)
   
  --Chris
   
   
  
  -Original Message-From: 
  orantdba [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 10, 
  2002 10:36 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: Re: The OCP bar is being 
  raised
  Hmmm,Imagine that,  a 
publicly traded company that it trying to make money, I am 
shockeddismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight. 
 Chris,  could you provide me with the list of companies 
that are not trying to make money?I want to make sure that I don't go to 
work for them, or learn their products.John :-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the 
  requirements for each.  You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we 
  would first have to get the OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry 
  level cert we have to have it.  Then, and only then, can we take the 
  OCP.  Then and only then, can we take the OCM and that is after we 
  take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber 
  of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has to spend money in a class that they 
  could probably teach from memory before they can get certification and 
  that is after getting 2 other certs that have no value to them.  Call 
  me a cynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.
  From the website:
  --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams 
  required-- for the Oracle Associate level of your 
  selected job role. Typically, --two exams are 
  required; the first one can be taken via the Internet, --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment. 
  By --completing your Oracle Associate, you are 
  half-way toward achieving the-- Oracle Certified 
  Professional credential. 
  --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must 
  pass all required exams --in your selected job 
  role, including those at the Associate level. 
  --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be 
  an Oracle --Certified Professional. Additionally, 
  achieving your OCM credential --requires attending 
  two advanced level Oracle University courses from --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum 
  exam. 
  --Chris
  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 
  AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-LSubject: The OCP bar is being 
  raised
  Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about 
  time:---Introducing two new levels of Oracle 
  Certified Professional (OCP) Achievement  A recent *IDC report on IT Education 
  and Training Services quoted databaseprofessionals 
  and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of 
  ProfessionalCertification. And in an October 
  survey from *crn.com on Certification, 58% ofrespondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle 
  CertifiedProfessionals-Database Administrators. 
  
  To meet this demand, we have recently introduced t

RE: The OCP bar is being raised

[Rachel Carmichael]

OCD = good drugs :)  (obsessive compulsive disorder)


--- "Khedr, Waleed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OCP, OCA, OCM, OCD = ?
> 
> How can you bring money?
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:
>

> 
> ---
> Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP)
> Achievement 
>  
> A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted
> database
> professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of
> Professional
> Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on
> Certification, 58%
> of
> respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle
> Certified
> Professionals-Database Administrators. 
> 
> To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of
> professional
> achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java
> Developers
> worldwide): 
> 
> The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle
> qualification
> requiring successful completion of two exams.
> The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for
> Oracle
> Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a
> practicum
> exam
> on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
> Visit
>
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.htm
> l
> for more information
> 
> IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
> crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001
>

> 
> -
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: 
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: Khedr, Waleed
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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Re: The OCP bar is being raised

[orantdba]

I'm thinking of changing my handle to obviousman?  

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Should we parse you handle, O,rant, DBA. That's it!  R- Original Message -To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 11:03 AM
  
Hi all,The oca exams are the same exams you would take on the way to being anOCP under the current program.  The only difference is along the way youcan get a designation of OCA.  Not unlike Microsofts MCP.John[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  From the website:--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass allrequired exams--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate level.The way I read that, you have to have the OCA exams before you can getthe OCP.  So if you take and pass the OCP, until you pay for and passthe OCA, you cannot get the OCP certificat and recognition and youcannot even take the OCM.--Chris-Original Message-From: SARKAR, Samir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 10:28 AMTo: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'Subject: RE: The OCP bar is b
eing raisedChris,Am not clear on  this. To b an OCP, we require to pass 5examsright ?? So, if we get theOCP Associate after passing 2 exams, we need to pass only another3 exams for getting OCPor do we have to go through all the 5 exams all over again ??I think we can directly sit for the OCP tests though instead ofgoing through the OCA. But to get theOCP Master, we will necessarily have to b a OCP.Do correct me if I am wrong though.Regards,SamirSamir SarkarOracle DBA - Lennon TeamSchlumberger SemaEmail :  [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]Phone : +44
 (0) 115 - 95 76217EPABX : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6418 Ext. 76217Fax : +44 (0) 115 - 957 6018-Original Message-From: Bowes, Chris [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: 10 January 2002 15:05To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L    Subject: RE: The OCP bar is being raisedI'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirementsfor each.  You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we wouldfirst have to get the OCA.  Whether or not we need the entrylevel cert we have to have it.  Then, and only then, can wetake the OCP.  Then and only then, can we take the OCM andthat is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still, has tospend money in a class that they could probably teach fr
ommemory before they can get certification and that is aftergetting 2 other certs that have no value to them.  Call me acynic, but to me, this is nothing but a money grab.From the website:--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams
  
  
  required
  

  -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role.Typically,--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via theInternet,--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctoredenvironment. By--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way towardachieving the-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must passall required exams--in your selected job role, including those at the Associatelevel.--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be anOracle--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCMcredential--requires attending two advanced level Oracle Universitycourses from--the list shown on this page as well as pas
sing the OCMPracticum exam.--Chris-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ]Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: The OCP bar is being raisedAnyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:
  
  

  

  ---Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional(OCP) AchievementA recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Servicesquoted databaseprofessionals and network engineers as the fastest-growingareas of ProfessionalCertification. And in an October survey from *crn.com onCertification, 58% ofrespondents said that it is very difficult to find qualifiedOracle CertifiedProfessionals-Database Administrators.To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new 

Re: The OCP bar is being raised

[Rachel Carmichael]

they are moving in the right direction with the practicum exam
(although I'd want to know how practical the exam really is).

Unfortunately, it's also a way to sell education courses -- you ALSO
have to take TWO Oracle U classes. 


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:
>

> ---
> Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP)
> Achievement 
>  
> A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted
> database
> professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of
> Professional
> Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on
> Certification, 58% of
> respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle
> Certified
> Professionals-Database Administrators. 
> 
> To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of
> professional
> achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and Java
> Developers
> worldwide): 
> 
> The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle
> qualification
> requiring successful completion of two exams.
> The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for
> Oracle
> Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a
> practicum exam
> on-sitee at an Oracle University education center. 
> Visit
>
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html
> for more information
> 
> IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
> crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001
>

> -
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
> -- 
> Author: 
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051  FAX: (858) 538-5051
> San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing
> Lists
> 
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
> the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).


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Re: The OCP bar is being raised

[Rachel Carmichael]

John,

I have no objection to Oracle trying to make money (heck, I own stock,
I WANT and expect them to make money!)

The problem is not that they are trying to make money, but that this is
becoming something you HAVE to do/have to get a job working with
Oracle. And they haven't convinced me of the value of that piece of
paper. I know way too many certified DBAs who I wouldn't trust to even
query my databases.

Rachel

--- orantdba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmmm,
> 
> Imagine that,  a publicly traded company that it trying to make
> money, I 
> am shocked
> dismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight.  
> 
> Chris,  could you provide me with the list of companies that are not 
> trying to make money?
> I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn their 
> products.
> 
> John :-)
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements for
> each.  
> > You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get
> the 
> > OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have
> it.  
> > Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can
> we 
> > take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from 
> > Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still,
> has 
> > to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from
> memory 
> > before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other
> 
> > certs that have no value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this
> is 
> > nothing but a money grab.
> >
> > From the website:
> >
> > --To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required
> > -- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role.
> Typically,
> > --two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the
> Internet,
> > --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment.
> By
> > --completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward
> achieving the
> > -- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
> >
> >
> > --To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all 
> > required exams
> > --in your selected job role, including those at the Associate
> level.
> >
> >
> > --To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle
> > --Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM
> credential
> > --requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses
> from
> > --the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum
> exam.
> >
> >
> > --Chris
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > Subject: The OCP bar is being raised
> >
> >
> > Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:
> >
>

> > ---
> > Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) 
> > Achievement
> >  
> > A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted
> database
> > professionals and network engineers as the fastest-growing areas of
> 
> > Professional
> > Certification. And in an October survey from *crn.com on 
> > Certification, 58% of
> > respondents said that it is very difficult to find qualified Oracle
> 
> > Certified
> > Professionals-Database Administrators.
> >
> > To meet this demand, we have recently introduced two new levels of 
> > professional
> > achievement to DBAs (and soon to be released to Application and
> Java 
> > Developers
> > worldwide):
> >
> > The Oracle Certified Associate (OCA) -- an entry-level Oracle 
> > qualification
> > requiring successful completion of two exams.
> > The Oracle Certified Master (OCM) -- an advanced qualification for
> Oracle
> > Certified Professionals (OCP), that requires students to take a 
> > practicum exam
> > on-sitee at an Oracle University education center.
> > Visit
> >
>
http://www.oracle.com/education/certification/news/index.html?certlevels.html
> 
> >
> > for more information
> >
> > IDC, IT Education and Training, Sept 2001
> > crn.com, Certification: What's Hot, What's Not, Oct 2001
> >
>

> > -
> > -- 
> > Pleas

Re: The OCP bar is being raised

[orantdba]

Hi Rachel,

Now we are to the point,  is it valuable?  I say yes and I have studied for
and
passed the ocp for 7, upgraded to 8 and to 8i and will soon take the 9i upgrade
test.  I also hold the Oracle 7 certification that was offered by Chauncey
before
the Oracle came out with the OCP.  Others say it is not.  It is their dollar,
and 
they can spend it as they wish.

Ultimately the market decides value,  I don't believe that any sane manager
of DBA's
would hire someone just because they are ocp's.  Managers would tend to value
relevant experience, the interview process, and degrees well before looking
at ocp's.

So why do I think it is important?  The first person who sees your resume
is usually
in the HR department.  They cannot hire you but they can file your resume
in the 
circular file.  Cute little designations like OCA, OCP, OCM, MCP, MCSE, CNE,
etc
help get you past those people and on to the people who can actually understand
you
when you talke about performing block dumps and interrogating the itl.  Those
people
can say yes and will because of my experience and interview presence.  They
will 
probably not care one bit about the cute little designations, but it is irrevelant
if I don't
get to talk to them.

I have had the discussion at oow, etc with more than a few people (perhaps
even you)
asking if you had two candidates with exactly the same criterias but one
had OCP and 
one didn't which would you hire?  This is a little like the "If god is all
powerful can he make
a rock so big that he himself cannot pick it up" question.  In the case described
above I would
probably go to things like "Which is cheaper?",  "Which had experience that
most matched my
project?",  " Which had the best personality match for my group?".  I don't
think OCP would 
make that much of a difference.

John

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  John,I have no objection to Oracle trying to make money (heck, I own stock,I WANT and expect them to make money!)The problem is not that they are trying to make money, but that this isbecoming something you HAVE to do/have to get a job working withOracle. And they haven't convinced me of the value of that piece ofpaper. I know way too many certified DBAs who I wouldn't trust to evenquery my databases.Rachel--- orantdba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
Hmmm,Imagine that,  a publicly traded company that it trying to makemoney, I am shockeddismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight.  Chris,  could you provide me with the list of companies that are not trying to make money?I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn their products.John :-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements for
  
  each.  
  
You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get

the 

  OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have
  
  it.  
  
Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can

we 

  take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still,
  
  has 
  
to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from

memory 

  before they can get certification and that is after getting 2 other
  
  
certs that have no value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me, this

is 

  nothing but a money grab.From the website:--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role.
  
  Typically,
  
--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the

Internet,

  --while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment.
  
  By
  
--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward

achieving the

  -- Oracle Certified Professional credential.--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all required exams--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate
  
  level.
  
--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an Oracle--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM

Re: The OCP bar is being raised

[Rachel Carmichael]

databases.
> >
> >Rachel
> >
> >--- orantdba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>Hmmm,
> >>
> >>Imagine that,  a publicly traded company that it trying to make
> >>money, I 
> >>am shocked
> >>dismayed, I don't believe I will be able to sleep tonight.  
> >>
> >>Chris,  could you provide me with the list of companies that are
> not 
> >>trying to make money?
> >>I want to make sure that I don't go to work for them, or learn
> their 
> >>products.
> >>
> >>John :-)
> >>
> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >>>I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the requirements for
> >>>
> >>each.  
> >>
> >>>You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would first have to get
> >>>
> >>the 
> >>
> >>>OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level cert we have to have
> >>>
> >>it.  
> >>
> >>>Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  Then and only then, can
> >>>
> >>we 
> >>
> >>>take the OCM and that is after we take these REQUIRED classes from
> 
> >>>Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve Adams or Jared Still,
> >>>
> >>has 
> >>
> >>>to spend money in a class that they could probably teach from
> >>>
> >>memory 
> >>
> >>>before they can get certification and that is after getting 2
> other
> >>>
> >>>certs that have no value to them.  Call me a cynic, but to me,
> this
> >>>
> >>is 
> >>
> >>>nothing but a money grab.
> >>>
> >>>From the website:
> >>>
> >>>--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass the exams required
> >>>-- for the Oracle Associate level of your selected job role.
> >>>
> >>Typically,
> >>
> >>>--two exams are required; the first one can be taken via the
> >>>
> >>Internet,
> >>
> >>>--while subsequent exams must be taken in a proctored environment.
> >>>
> >>By
> >>
> >>>--completing your Oracle Associate, you are half-way toward
> >>>
> >>achieving the
> >>
> >>>-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--To become an Oracle Certified Professional, you must pass all 
> >>>required exams
> >>>--in your selected job role, including those at the Associate
> >>>
> >>level.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>--To become an Oracle Certified Master, you must first be an
> Oracle
> >>>--Certified Professional. Additionally, achieving your OCM
> >>>
> >>credential
> >>
> >>>--requires attending two advanced level Oracle University courses
> >>>
> >>from
> >>
> >>>--the list shown on this page as well as passing the OCM Practicum
> >>>
> >>exam.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>--Chris
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>-Original Message-
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ]
> >>>Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:16 AM
> >>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >>>Subject: The OCP bar is being raised
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Anyone care to comment on the following, IMHO it's about time:
> >>>
>
>
> >
> >>>---
> >>>Introducing two new levels of Oracle Certified Professional (OCP) 
> >>>Achievement
> >>> 
> >>>A recent *IDC report on IT Education and Training Services quoted
> 
=== message truncated ===


__
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-- 
Author: Rachel Carmichael
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: The OCP bar is being raised

[Deepak Thapliyal]

> is 
> > irrevelant if I don't
> > get to talk to them.
> > 
> > I have had the discussion at oow, etc with more
> than a few people 
> > (perhaps even you)
> > asking if you had two candidates with exactly the
> same criterias but
> > one 
> > had OCP and
> > one didn't which would you hire?  This is a little
> like the "If god
> > is 
> > all powerful can he make
> > a rock so big that he himself cannot pick it up"
> question.  In the
> > case 
> > described above I would
> > probably go to things like "Which is cheaper?", 
> "Which had
> > experience 
> > that most matched my
> > project?",  " Which had the best personality match
> for my group?".  I
> > 
> > don't think OCP would
> > make that much of a difference.
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > >John,
> > >
> > >I have no objection to Oracle trying to make
> money (heck, I own
> > stock,
> > >I WANT and expect them to make money!)
> > >
> > >The problem is not that they are trying to make
> money, but that this
> > is
> > >becoming something you HAVE to do/have to get a
> job working with
> > >Oracle. And they haven't convinced me of the
> value of that piece of
> > >paper. I know way too many certified DBAs who I
> wouldn't trust to
> > even
> > >query my databases.
> > >
> > >Rachel
> > >
> > >--- orantdba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Hmmm,
> > >>
> > >>Imagine that,  a publicly traded company that it
> trying to make
> > >>money, I 
> > >>am shocked
> > >>dismayed, I don't believe I will be able to
> sleep tonight.  
> > >>
> > >>Chris,  could you provide me with the list of
> companies that are
> > not 
> > >>trying to make money?
> > >>I want to make sure that I don't go to work for
> them, or learn
> > their 
> > >>products.
> > >>
> > >>John :-)
> > >>
> > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>I'd say the cost is being raised.  Look at the
> requirements for
> > >>>
> > >>each.  
> > >>
> > >>>You can't just take the OCM exam.  No we would
> first have to get
> > >>>
> > >>the 
> > >>
> > >>>OCA.  Whether or not we need the entry level
> cert we have to have
> > >>>
> > >>it.  
> > >>
> > >>>Then, and only then, can we take the OCP.  Then
> and only then, can
> > >>>
> > >>we 
> > >>
> > >>>take the OCM and that is after we take these
> REQUIRED classes from
> > 
> > >>>Oracle Ed.  So someone the caliber of Steve
> Adams or Jared Still,
> > >>>
> > >>has 
> > >>
> > >>>to spend money in a class that they could
> probably teach from
> > >>>
> > >>memory 
> > >>
> > >>>before they can get certification and that is
> after getting 2
> > other
> > >>>
> > >>>certs that have no value to them.  Call me a
> cynic, but to me,
> > this
> > >>>
> > >>is 
> > >>
> > >>>nothing but a money grab.
> > >>>
> > >>>From the website:
> > >>>
> > >>>--To become an Oracle Associate, you must pass
> the exams required
> > >>>-- for the Oracle Associate level of your
> selected job role.
> > >>>
> > >>Typically,
> > >>
> > >>>--two exams are required; the first one can be
> taken via the
> > >>>
> > >>Internet,
> > >>
> > >>>--while subsequent exams must be taken in a
> proctored environment.
> > >>>
> > >>By
> > >>
> > >>>--completing your Oracle Associate, you are
> half-way toward
> > >>>
> > >>achieving the
> > >>
> > >>>-- Oracle Certified Professional credential.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>--To become an Oracle Certified Professional,
> you must pass all 
> > >>>required exams
> > >>>--in your selected job role, including those 

Re: The OCP bar is being raised

[bill thater]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>>additional tests to
>>convert it OCP7, took the two upgrades for 8 and 8i
>>respectively. I
>>never studied for the tests, in fact, I took them on
>>the spur of the
>>moment each time. I had never worked with 8 or 8i
>>when I took those
>>upgrades. so what does that tell you? 
>>
>
>tells me that you are either twice lucky or the
>goddess that people call you .. lol
>
go for the goddess, the lady is wyy smart.  trust me in this.;-)


-- 
--
Bill "Shrek" Thater  ORACLE DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

You gotta program like you don't need the money,
You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt,
You gotta run like there's nobody watching,
It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work.

No program done by a hacker will work unless he is on the system.






-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
-- 
Author: bill thater
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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