RE: Robbie Fulks and covers
At 04:08 PM 3/2/99 -0500, you wrote: The first time I heard their version was on the televised portion of the Opry a few years ago; that flat 7 chord jumped right out at me. Uh... as a non-musician who doesn't even aspire to play three chord Lou Reed songs, what the hell are you talking about? Hah, am I glad you asked, because it's not a flat 7, it's a flat 6 (so much for this "non-musician" pose). The first two lines of the verse go 4 chord to 1 chord, but at the start of the third line, it goes to a flat 6 chord - C in the key of E - and that's not something you find a lot of in bluegrass, or in country music in general (there's a flat 6 in the second part of "Snowflake Reel"/"Snowflake Breakdown," but after that it gets hard to recall any right now). If you recall the chord pattern for "All Along The Watchtower," the chord that the pattern goes down to is the flat 6 (1minor, flat 7, flat 6, flat 7,1minor, repeat ad infinitum); another example of it is in "I've Been Loving You Too Long," where it's used in the vamp (a passage that you play over and over, like a loop). Maybe that will give you the idea of the sound. Can you create flash cards for me? Uh... I'm sorry I asked the original question. Jeff Miles of Music mail order http://www.milesofmusic.com FREE printed Catalog: (818) 883-9975 fax: (818) 992-8302, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alt-Country, rockabilly, bluegrass, folk, power pop and tons more.
RE: Robbie Fulks and covers
Can you create flash cards for me? Uh... I'm sorry I asked the original question. Jeff [Matt Benz] Jeff, what Jon is doing is "translating" the chords of a song into numbers. The whole key of a song, say G becomes numbers: G -1 A -2 B-3 C-4 D-5 E-6 F-7. So, your standard pop chords of G - C - D become I - 4 - 5, which is the "145 progression." The flat 6 would be a Eb chord. I think. Either that, or it's really a flatted 6th chord, as in Gb6. What was the question?
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Hey there, Ex-Boston Bob, who never goes out in Chicago anymore g Ive heard both Cake and Robbie introduce old covers by explicitly stating something along the lines of 'I think this is a really good song' Cake even went so far as to say 'we're not doing this ironically.' But don't some of these people need to be told, "You're wrong!" Repeatedly and loudly if necessary? I assume you mean wrong about the good song part and not about the 'we're not ironic' part. Well, as I overheard at the Tweedy show, "That's cause Fulks is smarter than everyone else." g The speaker, of course, being ironic, I assume. Later... CK ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
RE: Robbie Fulks and covers
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Jennifer K. Heffron wrote: On the topic of covers, generally, I enjoy the occasional incongruous cover that an artist throws into the set, even the cheese. Especially when the artist can make the cover song sound uniquely "theirs." I guess I like the novelty of it. A song ends and I expect to hear another fabulous original. But no, instead I get "Jet." Fabulous! Hilarious! I'm thinking of the first time I heard The Derailers' cover of Prince's "Raspberry Beret" or The V-Roys' cover of IOU by The Replacements. I guess one could make the argument that the above songs are not really cheese, but I like 'em all. Dang, I wish people would listen to us like that g#. Since HTC is a working club band as well as an alt-country-of-sorts band, we do a lot of venues (VFW's and such) where cover tunes of all kinds are a requirement. It really is amazing how a song you've played to death can gain new life before a different audience. For instance, in spite of the dictum which holds that no band should ever cover "Folsom Prison Blues", we keep on doing it regardless of the "cheese factor" because (a) its fun; (b) people actually seem to like it; and (c) we usually have three telecasters on stage and it makes sense to use them. N.B. Sort of off the subject: Another fun kinda song to do is the obligatory spaghetti western surf instrumental. I was looking for one of those for us to cover not long ago, and last week in this restaurant in Richmond over the background music there comes "The Lonely Bull" by Herb Alpert. Has anyone heard another band cover this recently? -- Geff King * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www2.ari.net/gking/ "Don't let me catch you laughin' when the jukebox cries" - Kinky Friedman, "Sold American"
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Hey there, Slonedog says: Nirvana were pretentious 90s shits but I guess they were better than Shania. Better how? Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/ *sigh* Later... CK stupid and contageous ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Hey there, I never thought I'd be glad to hear "These Boots Are Made For Walking" again until I heard Candye Kane reinvent it on her CD. If any song screamed "cheese", this is it, and Kane turned it into a campy cover that I like better than the original. It _does_ have the greatest bass line intro in all of music. Aaand one fine video. Fnar fnar. Later... CK ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Bob wrote: Ive heard both Cake and Robbie introduce old covers by explicitly stating something along the lines of 'I think this is a really good song' Cake even went so far as to say 'we're not doing this ironically.' If that's referring to their cover of "I Will Survive," I remember a friend being annoyed that they *werent* playing it ironically. She insisted on some rule that I had never heard of written somewhere in the Geneva convention or the vehicle code that since the original was so campy, it could not be played seriously by anyone else. It's sorta like the Ramones taking a very bad novelty record like "Surfin' Bird" and turning it a pretty great rock n roll song. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Hey there, Dina 'Gundy' Gunderson OK, OK, finally I just have to ask "WHY?!!!" I just don't get it. Why do people love for country or alt.country bands or so-called alt.country bands to do covers of godawful cheesy rock songs? Why do people respond to these more than they do to the, OK, I'm going to say it, "real" songs? a bunch of replies and then Jamie... Yeah, I'll testify. Here's my deal, Dina--usually I don't like it much when a band covers a cheesy song. I'm thinking of that awful disco thing that Cake covered a couple years back, for instance..."I Will Survive", was it? Anyhow, to me, the difference is, Robbie made "Jet" sound like the best damn song ever written when he played it. (And that takes some doing. g) I think it was his sheer enthusiasm. Well, agreeing with all the 'it sounds good' and 'its fun' posts one more thing. Ive heard both Cake and Robbie introduce old covers by explicitly stating something along the lines of 'I think this is a really good song' Cake even went so far as to say 'we're not doing this ironically.' So I think, contrary to Jamie's point, that there are songs that can be removed from their original context (read: Disco) to highlight the lyrical and/or simple melody of the tune. Enough to make you go "Hey, Dancing Queen is a pretty cool tune." I'd put John Wesley Harding's cover of Like A Prayer in this pile as well. Later... CK shocked that Linda didnt know Wings sang Jet ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Barry Mazor wrote: OK, OK, finally I just have to ask "WHY?!!!" I just don't get it. Why do people love for country or alt.country bands or so-called alt.country bands to do covers of godawful cheesy rock songs? Why do people respond to these more than they do to the, OK, I'm going to say it, "real" songs? Dina Two reasons I think. 1. If you do like the twang--then these covers arrive as an incongruous SURPRISE. You get a response. 2. For those at these alt.country shows who DON'T actually like twang but only the tiniest rock and roll allusions to it (and they're always afoot), it gives them something they actually relate to. Very well put Barry. I think the Flatirons doing Crazy Train certainly qualifies for the incongruous surprise category. Bill Lavery http://villagerecords.com/
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Barry says, And bonus 3: It is a passing peculiarity of the late 90s that it passes for ultrahip to celebrate the most addlebrained and plain dull pop pablum of years gone by, at the deliberate expense of what somebody's older brother with taste liked. So you scream for Karen Carpenter and ABBA, natch, and explain why Jimi Hendrix was the plague and the Beatles overrated. These choices prove you are most-definitely alternatively, dude. Well, you know that means that folks like Neil McCoy and Brooks Dunn are SUPER-ultrahip in their cover choices! Dina
RE: Robbie Fulks and covers
Excerpts from recent postcards: Why do people love for country or alt.country bands or so-called alt.country bands to do covers of godawful cheesy rock songs? Why do people respond to these more than they do to the, OK, I'm going to say it, "real" songs? Two reasons I think. 1. If you do like the twang--then these covers arrive as an incongruous SURPRISE. You get a response. 2. For those at these alt.country shows who DON'T actually like twang but only the tiniest rock and roll allusions to it (and they're always afoot), it gives them something they actually relate to. And bonus 3: It is a passing peculiarity of the late 90s that it passes for ultrahip to celebrate the most addlebrained and plain dull pop pablum of years gone by, at the deliberate expense of what somebody's older brother with taste liked Slonedog says: Or perhaps it's because the artists actually like the songs. I for one love "Dancing Queen", "Jet" and "I Will Survive". They're not "guilty pleasures", they're just fun songs. One of my favorite bands, the late, lamented Jellyfish used to do a great cover of "Jet". And U2 has been known to cover "Dancing Queen". By the way, speaking of covers, the Del McCoury Band did a great cover of Tom Petty's "Love Is A Long Road" on Sessions at West 54th. Cake's version of "I Will Survive" was lame though. More excerpts: And watch this lil hipster wannabees: in 15 years someone will announce that Son Volt, Nirvana, and say...Beck..were pretentious 90s shits, and the embarrassing lunkheads of that time never saw the genius of Shania Twain.. Slonedog says: Nirvana were pretentious 90s shits but I guess they were better than Shania.
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
I could care less about Cake, but Gloria Gaynor's original version is just swell. Great song delivering a dead-serious message that no doubt resonated with lotsa folks inside and outside of her intended audience. I want to defend Cake here, who it seems some folks might wanna toss away as just another one hit alt wonder. Not nearly the case. They fascinate me to no end for their smart, funny, sad inventive, rocking, groovy, genre-bent ways. The Camper Van on the 90s, methinks. As for their cover of "I Will Survive," I think it's quite good, turning the song into a slightly disconcerting trip that still remains quite faithful to the original with its uplifting message, a tone punctuated by the trumpet parts. It's worth noting too that "Survive" is one of three covers on that album, the others being "Perhaps Perhaps Perhaps" (by which old time female pop singer???) and Willie's "Sad Songs and Waltzes." Now that's pretty darn ambitious if you ask me. from the rock side, Neal Weiss
RE: Robbie Fulks and covers
By the way, speaking of covers, the Del
McCoury Band did a great cover of Tom Petty's "Love Is A Long Road" on
Sessions at West 54th.
The first time I heard their version was on the televised portion of the
Opry a few years ago; that flat 7 chord jumped right out at me. It's on
their last album, The Cold Hard Facts (Rounder), along with a Robert Cray
number ("Smoking Gun"). Can't get more traditional than that.
Slonedog says: Nirvana were pretentious 90s shits but I guess they were
better than Shania.
Better how?
Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
At 08:31 PM 3/1/99 -0500, you wrote: Jennifer, who is going to scream for "Jet" at the top of her lungs when Mr. Fulks hits town next month... OK, OK, finally I just have to ask "WHY?!!!" I just don't get it. Why do people love for country or alt.country bands or so-called alt.country bands to do covers of godawful cheesy rock songs? Why do people respond to these more than they do to the, OK, I'm going to say it, "real" songs? Secret confirmation that those godawful songs we all loved as kids aren't as godawful as many of us publicly claim. It isn't just alt.country bands. The Mats once did a three song Alice Cooper medly with the roadie singing leads (Bill something or another, I think). In fact, they also did Build Me Up Buttercup in that same show and this wasn't one of the drunken song frag shows. Jeff Miles of Music mail order http://www.milesofmusic.com FREE printed Catalog: (818) 883-9975 fax: (818) 992-8302, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alt-Country, rockabilly, bluegrass, folk, power pop and tons more.
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Someone (sorry, missed the initial message) wrote:
> Why do people love for country or alt.country bands or so-called
> alt.country bands to do covers of godawful cheesy rock songs?
And Jeff Weiss responded:
> Secret confirmation that those godawful songs we all loved as kids
> aren't as godawful as many of us publicly claim.
What he said. Some of those songs are quite well written. A couple of my bands have done a country-ish version of the Cars "My Best Friend's Girlfriend." Goofy lyrics ("you gotcher nuclear boot, and your drip-dry glove") aside, it's a well-written song. Another fave to do in spare folk style is Soundgarden's "Black Hole Sun." The Ass Ponys used to do a spare, drop-dead-serious version of "You Shook Me All Night Long." And so on.
They're just damned fun to play.
If Jake London is out here still, he should forward his very fine essay on covers to the list.
Hi everyone. Did I miss anything good?
Smooches,
Dave
***
Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport
Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Dave Purcell wrote: If Jake London is out here still, he should forward his very fine essay on covers to the list. Speakin' of Jake and cool covers, he does a swell version of the Spinners' "Games People Play." Hi everyone. Did I miss anything good? Nah. We've all been waitin' for you to return, darlin'. Welcome back!--don
RE: Robbie Fulks and covers
At 12:54 PM 3/2/99 -0500, you wrote: By the way, speaking of covers, the Del McCoury Band did a great cover of Tom Petty's "Love Is A Long Road" on Sessions at West 54th. The first time I heard their version was on the televised portion of the Opry a few years ago; that flat 7 chord jumped right out at me. Uh... as a non-musician who doesn't even aspire to play three chord Lou Reed songs, what the hell are you talking about? Jeff Miles of Music mail order http://www.milesofmusic.com FREE printed Catalog: (818) 883-9975 fax: (818) 992-8302, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alt-Country, rockabilly, bluegrass, folk, power pop and tons more.
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
...covers of godawful cheesy rock songs? Why do people respond to these more than they do to the, OK, I'm going to say it, "real" songs? The obvious answer here is that people like to have fun (and unfortunately sometimes people like to have fun much more than they like to have anything else, which is why people talk during the ballads). ... But it was interesting the way this came round to various attempts to condemn particular pop songs, which others defended, and then to the whole alterna-cool of cheeze these days. I'm as bored by a lot of kitschomania as anyone (possibly more so), but I think there's more to this - that in a genuinely *un*ironic way the hip-music world has come round to an appreciation of pop as a Good Thing in itself in the past few years. you can hear it in people saying "we're not trying to be silly by playing these pop covers - we *like* these songs." you can hear it in many of the best indie bands, and I think (I know it is for me) a weariness with the pointless game of keeping up with hip trends and cooler-than-thouness that began especially with punk rock, and a new wariness against the kind of disdainful ironic stance that was ubiquitous in post-punk circles towards pop culture. The embrace of pop is also part of a new eclecticism, in which everything from 60s soundtrack music to disco to musique concrete to Tuvan throat-singing sits happily in the alterna-bricolage. (Oh, and country should be on that list, too.) I do however see a couple of problems with this: first, I think a lot of people in the alterna-world have never developed good ears to be able to tell a great pop song from a mediocre one, and tend just to respond to whatever reminds them of being 12; second, the just-wanna-have-fun impulse that's good for pop can lead to a shutout of more genuinely experimental and innovative efforts, an over-suspicion that anything not willfully bouncy is pretentious. Still, I think pop revivals are always a good thing for the music-creativity cycle in the long run. Music being music, you need to feel it all over. Carl W.
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Aw, Dave's back. Hi everyone. Did I miss anything good? Smooches, Dave Actually, you didn't. Marah is still the future of alt-country. g marie
RE: Robbie Fulks and covers
The first time I heard their version was on the televised portion of the Opry a few years ago; that flat 7 chord jumped right out at me. Uh... as a non-musician who doesn't even aspire to play three chord Lou Reed songs, what the hell are you talking about? Hah, am I glad you asked, because it's not a flat 7, it's a flat 6 (so much for this "non-musician" pose). The first two lines of the verse go 4 chord to 1 chord, but at the start of the third line, it goes to a flat 6 chord - C in the key of E - and that's not something you find a lot of in bluegrass, or in country music in general (there's a flat 6 in the second part of "Snowflake Reel"/"Snowflake Breakdown," but after that it gets hard to recall any right now). If you recall the chord pattern for "All Along The Watchtower," the chord that the pattern goes down to is the flat 6 (1minor, flat 7, flat 6, flat 7,1minor, repeat ad infinitum); another example of it is in "I've Been Loving You Too Long," where it's used in the vamp (a passage that you play over and over, like a loop). Maybe that will give you the idea of the sound. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
RE: Robbie Fulks and covers
Dina asked why a person might scream out for a cheesy pop cover... Well, speaking only for myself, I have to say that I enjoy "Jet." A lot. So sue me g. On the topic of covers, generally, I enjoy the occasional incongruous cover that an artist throws into the set, even the cheese. Especially when the artist can make the cover song sound uniquely "theirs." I guess I like the novelty of it. A song ends and I expect to hear another fabulous original. But no, instead I get "Jet." Fabulous! Hilarious! I'm thinking of the first time I heard The Derailers' cover of Prince's "Raspberry Beret" or The V-Roys' cover of IOU by The Replacements. I guess one could make the argument that the above songs are not really cheese, but I like 'em all. Still standing by my plan to scream for "Jet," Jennifer
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
At 04:40 PM 3/2/99 PST, John K. wrote: I never thought I'd be glad to hear "These Boots Are Made For Walking" again until I heard Candye Kane reinvent it on her CD. My favorite version of this song is Loretta Lynn's. And she don't do it campy, neither--I mean, she is all but out the door! --david cantwell
RE: Robbie Fulks and covers
Slonedog says: Or perhaps it's because the artists actually like the songs. I for one love "Dancing Queen", "Jet" and "I Will Survive". They're not "guilty pleasures", they're just fun songs. I don't like to do the "But that's what I said in the firts place" thing--but I did--before those, uh, social decsriptions. Robbie Fulks did those songs in dead earnest and they were swell--and I never said I didn't like 'em for their own sake in the firts place. What we were looking at is the reason for the seemingly out of proportion response to 'em compared to the rest of a terrific set of his own stuff. That's all. Barry
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 1-Mar-99 Re: Robbie Fulks and covers by Dina Gunderson@mindsprin OK, OK, finally I just have to ask "WHY?!!!" I just don't get it. Why do people love for country or alt.country bands or so-called alt.country bands to do covers of godawful cheesy rock songs? I dunno, but Fulks plays the hell out of that song, so I think he really likes it. Jamie S. will testify to how well he did it in Pittsburgh last fall. Carl Z.
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Wait. . .I've never heard Robbie do this particular cover. Are you referring to that cheesy rock song Suffragette by the Beatles? curious, Linda In a message dated 3/1/99 9:04:26 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jennifer, who is going to scream for "Jet" at the top of her lungs when Mr. Fulks hits town next month... OK, OK, finally I just have to ask "WHY?!!!" I just don't get it. Why do people love for country or alt.country bands or so-called alt.country bands to do covers of godawful cheesy rock songs? Why do people respond to these more than they do to the, OK, I'm going to say it, "real" songs? Dina
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Wait. . .I've never heard Robbie do this particular cover. Are you referring to that cheesy rock song Suffragette by the Beatles? curious, Linda That's Jet all right, Linda--but it was by Wings. OK, OK, finally I just have to ask "WHY?!!!" I just don't get it. Why do people love for country or alt.country bands or so-called alt.country bands to do covers of godawful cheesy rock songs? Why do people respond to these more than they do to the, OK, I'm going to say it, "real" songs? Dina Two reasons I think. 1. If you do like the twang--then these covers arrive as an incongruous SURPRISE. You get a response. 2. For those at these alt.country shows who DON'T actually like twang but only the tiniest rock and roll allusions to it (and they're always afoot), it gives them something they actually relate to. So why WOULDN'T those add up to what sounds like more response! And bonus 3: It is a passing peculiarity of the late 90s that it passes for ultrahip to celebrate the most addlebrained and plain dull pop pablum of years gone by, at the deliberate expense of what somebody's older brother with taste liked. So you scream for Karen Carpenter and ABBA, natch, and explain why Jimi Hendrix was the plague and the Beatles overrated. These choices prove you are most-definitely alternatively, dude. THIS WILL PASS. And watch this lil hipster wannabees: in 15 years someone will announce that Son Volt, Nirvana, and say...Beck..were pretentious 90s shits, and the embarrassing lunkheads of that time never saw the genius of Shania Twain...just passing them by...and, of course, that great, unheralded Norman Fibber Hall. How could those idiots have missed HIM? Barry
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
In a message dated 3/2/99 3:45:36 AM !!!First Boot!!!, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wait. . .I've never heard Robbie do this particular cover. Are you referring to that cheesy rock song Suffragette by the Beatles? Linda! I know that this isn't a Beatles discussion group, but I'm shocked that you didn't know that "Jet" was a Wings song, not a Fab Four comp. Mitch Matthews Gravel Train/Sunken Road
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Carl Z. says: I dunno, but Fulks plays the hell out of that song, so I think he really likes it. Jamie S. will testify to how well he did it in Pittsburgh last fall. Yeah, I'll testify. Here's my deal, Dina--usually I don't like it much when a band covers a cheesy song. I'm thinking of that awful disco thing that Cake covered a couple years back, for instance..."I Will Survive", was it? Anyhow, to me, the difference is, Robbie made "Jet" sound like the best damn song ever written when he played it. (And that takes some doing. g) I think it was his sheer enthusiasm. Next, I want him to cover "Heart of Glass". Hee hee. I heart Robbie Fulks, Jamie S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wavetech.net/~swedberg http://www.usinternet.com/users/ndteegarden/bheaters
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
In a message dated 3/1/99 10:10:38 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That's Jet all right, Linda--but it was by Wings. I knew that. lr, sleep deprived from the Tweedy show. he covered some Uncle Tupelo. I don't think the Woody Guthrie stuff counts as covers.
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Jaime sez: Robbie made "Jet" sound like the best damn song ever written when he played it. (And that takes some doing. g) I think it was his sheer enthusiasm. Or sheer perversity. Tom Moran The Deliberate Strangers' Old Home Place http://members.tripod.com/~Deliberate_Strangers/index.html
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Have I ever mentioned that I like the Stones better? lr
