Re: [RBW] Re: Soma Supple Vitesse

[Bill in Roswell GA]

The Supple Vitesse EX 33 is fast and has a nice ride, as long as air 
pressure is kept in a fairly narrow range. Mounted on Open Pros at my 205 
lbs, that was about 65 psi front, 73 psi rear. Just a few psi less and it 
started feeling more like a Pasela. On Open Pro rims, the SV has never 
measured more than 31.5 mm in width. A wider rim could add a few mm in 
width. 

The Vitesse EX 38, on the other hand, does feel plump, rides plush, is as 
fast on the flats as a GP 4000. Mounted on HED Belgium rims, it measures 
36.5 mm. The large air volume is much less sensitive to air pressure, which 
is nice not just for speed and ride quality but also not having to pump it 
up every couple of days. 

Would be fun to try them as a tubeless setup. 

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 3:08:52 PM UTC-5, Jon BALER wrote:
>
> I've had good luck with the soma shikoro 38mm tires on my commuter.  They 
> ride nice and few flats over 1.5 years of commuting on suburban roads and 
> shoulders.

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[RBW] Re: 8 speeds going away @ Rivendell?

[Christopher Murray]

To me, the end of 8 speed represents a turning point in bicycle and component 
history. The moment when trying to continuously improve products devolved into 
some type of arms race (Ours goes to 11!). When more became more for its own 
sake (or to have one more gear than the competition) rather than for real, 
tangible, and noticeable improvement. 1999 or so? This probably speaks more to 
my age than anything and I’m sure others see earlier/ different turning points— 
sti, integration, brifters, v-brakes, etc. 

8 speeds made so much sense. 24 gears (3x8) is plenty. I like 8 speeds. I feel 
like it had so many advantages with so few downsides. I hope it finds a way to 
stick around.

Cheers,
Chris

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[RBW] Biking to ski

[velomann]

Nice film from Patagonia about some rookie bikepackers riding to ski gnarly 
lines in the eastern Sierra.
https://youtu.be/WOSwosFt_rI
Mike M

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Re: [RBW] FS Tires BG Rock and Roll

[Carla Waugh]

BG’s are tan sidewalls with less than 100 miles and are 75.00 plus shipping. 
Thanks

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Re: [RBW] Canvas vest recs?

[Deacon Patrick]

Of course both those vests are insulated.

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[RBW] Canvas vest recs?

[Deacon Patrick]

Do either of these fit the bill?
http://www.schaefer-ranchwear.com/709rw-gunnison-rangewax-vest.html
or
http://www.schaefer-ranchwear.com/705rw-rangewax-ranger-vest.html

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Canvas vest recs?

[Patrick Moore]

I wan't correcting you, Garth, I was correcting myself.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Garth  wrote:

> For the sake of brevity Patrick !!  Yes, I'm well aware of all the various
> kinds of synthetic fabric and their likenesses and differences , but simply
> used the word nylon for an example of one without the negative connotations
> that "so-called plastic" fibers seem to get sometimes.
>
> I have no qualms about any fibers on their own merits, but do find a few
> that I do not prefer for various reasons.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 11:47:45 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> That may be inaccurate. They have been synthetics of one sort or another;
>> the lightest ones of lightweight nylon, the heavier ones of stretchy and
>> supposedly breathable synthetics.
>>
>> ...My other cycling vests have been of different weights and designs of
>>> nylon.
>>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: Ridin’ Where the Sun Don’t Shine

[Deacon Patrick]

Important detail to note, Doug, is it’s a feel of 30˚F, due to loss of radient 
sun and coming round a bend into the the shade and wind. But as abrupt as going 
outside to a 30˚F day from a 60˚ home.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Calling Ron Mc for handlebar comparison photo

[Doug H.]

I just replaced drop bars on my Trek 520 with Rivendell’s Albastache and a 
Nitto Dirt Drop Stem. It feels like a new bike. Upright but with several hand 
positions. 

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[RBW] Re: 8 speeds going away @ Rivendell?

[dougP]

The tell-tale that signals the end of 8 speed from Rivendell will likely be 
when the 8 speed Ultegra bar ends are no longer offered.  While I like my 8 
speeds, I really don't need an 11 or 12 cog, and there are plenty of 7 
speed cassettes in useable ranges available from many sources.  Just add 
the spacer.  And there's always the trusty "make 8 from a 7 plus stray 
cogs, using 8 speed spacers" solution.

BTW, also checked Harris site, just for fun.  While they list a lot of 
things, when you click on a lot of them, the response is "not availalbe".  
Inventory control is a tough problem.  

dougP  

On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 7:23:52 PM UTC-8, dougP wrote:
>
> It's been a while since I checked the parts area on Rivendell's site.  
> They only have one 8 speed cassette configuration, and in black only at 
> grade HG-31.  It is a bargain @ $20 but looks like a clearance price when 
> compared to $40 for the two 9 speed offerings.  No listing of what grade 
> those are BUT the desireable 12-36 is "X'd out", with only 11-32 & 11-28 
> listed.  With the increasing interest in ever larger tires, the 12-36 looks 
> like the one to keep if inventory reduction is the goal.  Those extra 4 
> teeth can be especially useful with chubby tires.
>
> dougP
>

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[RBW] Calling Ron Mc for handlebar comparison photo

[Ian A]

We are also overdue on some ride reports from Ron - the airwaves have been 
quiet for a while. 

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[RBW] Re: Ridin’ Where the Sun Don’t Shine

[dougP]

The grinnin' fool looks like a happy rider.  Thanks for posting.  30 degree 
temp swing!  Wow!

dougP

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 4:06:00 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> In which the game of dodge-a-buck continues, we discover the amazing gift 
> of radiant heat by its rapid absence and return, and have a blast blowing 
> through aspen glens.
> https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/where-the-sun-dont-shine
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.CredoFamily.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>

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[RBW] Re: Calling Ron Mc for handlebar comparison photo

[Evan E.]

Hi Alan,

I recall that photo, but can't find it. But just in case it helps, here's 
some research I did, a while back, on four similar bars: 

- Nitto B2522 Jitensha bar: aluminum, 580mm wide, no rise

- Ahearne + MAP bar: aluminum, 575mm or 615mm wide, 25mm rise

- VO Postino bar: aluminum, 570mm wide, no rise

- Nitto B206 Nordeast bar: chromoly, 525mm wide, 15mm rise

Yes, they differ in finish and they may vary in durability, but it's hard 
to tell for sure since most handlebar retailers don't mention results of EN 
testing or other tests.   

Evan

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 6:15:39 AM UTC-8, alan lavine wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> Looking to replace drop bars with something upright, such as jitensha, 
> MAP, postino, vo porter, etc.
>
> Awhile back there was a composite photo of several such bars posted, I 
> think, by Ron Mc.  Can anyone find it and re-post?
>
> Thanks,
> Alan
> NYC
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hetres

[Ben Miller]

Steve, I consider your comments to be bordering on being rude; I noted the 
visually differences and also explained why I don't believe them to be 
functionally different. Also, red treaded Hetre tyres look different than 
white or black, but are not they functionally different. 

Nor am I playing "silly games." I never said all tyres are the same, so 
that's a straw man argument that you've put up. But a tyre that is made in 
the same factory, for the same price, that weighs the same and is made for 
the same performance, yes, I do consider them to be functionally the same. 

I believe I have read most to nearly all Jan's blog posts and BQ articles 
on Compass tyres, so I'm not sure which post you are specifically referring 
to, but if you want to provide the link I will review it.

And again, don't take my word for it, much has been written on tread for 
bikes on pavement (or lack thereof), both by Sheldon & Jan, and others. And 
again, that's not to say that all tyres perform the same. Different tyres 
will perform different, regardless of tread, due to rubber compounds.

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 2:55:35 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On 11/25/2017 05:34 PM, Ben Miller wrote:
>
> As I said, it's an intensely personal choice.  
>
> Thanks, yes, I have looked at them. I don't consider the treads to be any 
> different, 
>
>
> Then you need to have your vision checked, because at this point I wonder 
> that you are even able to see the first line on the eye chart.  The 
> difference is obvious.  
>
>
> because I consider all slick treads to be the same. Bikes can not 
> hydroplane under anything close to normal circumstances, so what possible 
> difference could there be between those treads? Those differences in treads 
> are cosmetic, nothing more. (Don't believe me? Read what Sheldon Brown 
>  has to say about tread.) 
>
>
> You're either being deliberately obtuse or you are completely missing the 
> point.  Regardless of the functioning of tread, you simply cannot say the 
> tires are "identical" if the differences in the tread are obvious to the 
> naked eye.Now if you want to say something like "all bike tires are 
> functionally equivalent," then for some values of "equivalent" that might 
> be a true statement, and we could get into a detailed discussion of the 
> function of tread on bicycle tires.  But that's not what you said.
>
> Don't play silly games.  If your point is that as far as you are concerned 
> all bicycle tires are the same then just say so, but don't expect anyone to 
> take you seriously.
>
> Even if somehow you still think that there is a difference between radial 
> and herringbone tread, along the center, where the tyre actually contacts, 
> both Grand Bois and Compass have radial tread (SOMA's have a mix of radial 
> and a "true" slick pattern).
>
> And true, no one other than Panaracer really knows what, if any, 
> difference exists in those three tyres. But, if you're Panaracer and some 
> asks for a tyre of a given size, weight, performance, and price point, how 
> many different knobs do you think you have left to turn? It's not like 
> Panaracer in Japan has an infinite number of casing material and rubber 
> compounds to chose from, so those criteria almost certainly lock you into a 
> rubber & casing design and everything else is cosmetic. Do you really think 
> there is more to this decision making process? If so, what? 
>
>
> If you go back to Jan's blog and do a little searching you will find some 
> posts describing the design process for Compass tires.  It's entirely clear 
> from his writing that that decision process didn't even slightly resemble 
> your summary.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 1:17:25 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/25/2017 02:57 PM, Ben Miller wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Then be surprised.  The fact that Panaracer makes them doesn't mean 
>> they're made the same.  And honestly, detecting the difference between the 
>> Hetre and any other tire doesn't require a lot of detective work: all you 
>> need do is look at them.  Here they are side by side.  It's obvious that's 
>> not the same tread.  
>>
>> [image: Image result for compass babyshoe pass][image: Image result for 
>> grand bois hetre]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Steve Palincsar
>> Alexandria, Virginia 
>> USA
>>
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> USA
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Canvas vest recs?

[EasyRider]

Yep, you both seem to know what I'm after. The disintegrating vest has zip off 
arms, but they are too short for on the bike so I took them off years ago. It 
an old Illuminite vest; the part that is breaking up is some sort of white 
layer between inner mesh and outer nylon. The cut is great though - baggy 
enough to layer off thick sweaters and pullovers and breathe, but with a 
drawstring waist. 

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Re: [RBW] FS Tires BG Rock and Roll

[Joe Bunik]

hi Carla
black or tan sidewall? how much use have they had? LMK, I'll take em
if black and good.
Joe

On 11/25/17, Carla Waugh  wrote:
> These are still available and the Soma’s are sold.
>
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[RBW] FS Tires BG Rock and Roll

[Carla Waugh]

These are still available and the Soma’s are sold.

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Re: [RBW] Re: "We’ll have “classic” single speed frames again...."

[Jim M.]

Stopped by RBW today and picked up a new shirt in green and blue. Very nice 
shirts, and I'm a fan of the multicolored buttons. Grant and crew were 
installing a 75-in tv screen in the showroom. They plan to scroll photos 
and also have it available for when guest speakers present. While there, I 
got this sneak peek at the new single speed:




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[RBW] Ridin’ Where the Sun Don’t Shine

[Deacon Patrick]

In which the game of dodge-a-buck continues, we discover the amazing gift of 
radiant heat by its rapid absence and return, and have a blast blowing through 
aspen glens.
https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/where-the-sun-dont-shine

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hetres

[Ian A]

In regards to Ben's point about tread and hydroplaning: there does seem to be 
radically different grip through cornering depending on the tread. The Hetres 
on my bike seem secure through corners, even in the wet.

The Kojaks I had on another bike seemed prone to washing out. I replaced those 
with Vittoria Hyper, which rolled brilliantly, but terrified me in wet 
conditions. Replaced those with Marathon Supremes (700x35) and cornering was 
much improved. 

The Hetres on the 650b bike and the Supremes on the 700c bike both hold grip 
through corners well. The commuter on 26x1.75" Marathons is also sure footed.

Maybe the grip is more to do with compound composition rather than tread 
pattern, but I don't think tread pattern can be dismissed out of hand.

Love the Hetres. Will probably replace with BSP when the time comes. Compass 
know their products well.

IanA

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Richard Sachs(!) Rivendell on CL

[Jonathan D.]

This is still available and now they are only asking $2000 from over $3000 to 
start. What a beautiful build. 

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[RBW] Ye Ol Lovell Gulch Saddlesack and Coffee Hoose with Dave

[Deacon Patrick]

In which we gave thanks as we rode, piped, coffee-ed, dodged buck in the middle 
of the road, and had a fantastic time meeting for the first time. Thanks, Dave!
https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/cr-21-thanksgiving-classic

With abandon,
Patrick

www.CredoFamily.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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[RBW] FS Tires or trade

[Carla Waugh]

Trade tires for extra small Sackville Saddlesack any color.

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[RBW] FS Tires

[Carla Waugh]

Soma Supple Vitesse 48 very little mileage 
Bruce Gordon Rock and Road both are 700c 
145.00 plus postage 
If you want the Soma’s 75.00 plus postage
Bruce Gordon 75.00 plus postage

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hetres

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/25/2017 05:34 PM, Ben Miller wrote:

As I said, it's an intensely personal choice.

Thanks, yes, I have looked at them. I don't consider the treads to be 
any different,


Then you need to have your vision checked, because at this point I 
wonder that you are even able to see the first line on the eye chart.  
The difference is obvious.



because I consider all slick treads to be the same. Bikes can not 
hydroplane under anything close to normal circumstances, so what 
possible difference could there be between those treads? Those 
differences in treads are cosmetic, nothing more. (Don't believe me? 
Read what Sheldon Brown  has 
to say about tread.)


You're either being deliberately obtuse or you are completely missing 
the point.  Regardless of the functioning of tread, you simply cannot 
say the tires are "identical" if the differences in the tread are 
obvious to the naked eye.    Now if you want to say something like "all 
bike tires are functionally equivalent," then for some values of 
"equivalent" that might be a true statement, and we could get into a 
detailed discussion of the function of tread on bicycle tires.  But 
that's not what you said.


Don't play silly games.  If your point is that as far as you are 
concerned all bicycle tires are the same then just say so, but don't 
expect anyone to take you seriously.


Even if somehow you still think that there is a difference between 
radial and herringbone tread, along the center, where the tyre 
actually contacts, both Grand Bois and Compass have radial tread 
(SOMA's have a mix of radial and a "true" slick pattern).


And true, no one other than Panaracer really knows what, if any, 
difference exists in those three tyres. But, if you're Panaracer and 
some asks for a tyre of a given size, weight, performance, and price 
point, how many different knobs do you think you have left to turn? 
It's not like Panaracer in Japan has an infinite number of casing 
material and rubber compounds to chose from, so those criteria almost 
certainly lock you into a rubber & casing design and everything else 
is cosmetic. Do you really think there is more to this decision making 
process? If so, what?


If you go back to Jan's blog and do a little searching you will find 
some posts describing the design process for Compass tires.  It's 
entirely clear from his writing that that decision process didn't even 
slightly resemble your summary.





On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 1:17:25 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar 
wrote:




On 11/25/2017 02:57 PM, Ben Miller wrote:




Then be surprised.  The fact that Panaracer makes them doesn't
mean they're made the same.  And honestly, detecting the
difference between the Hetre and any other tire doesn't require a
lot of detective work: all you need do is look at them.  Here they
are side by side.  It's obvious that's not the same tread.

Image result for compass babyshoe passImage result for grand bois
hetre




-- 
Steve Palincsar

Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] FS: Sackville Olive Back-a-bike panniers $200

[John G.]

Bags are sold.

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Re: [RBW] Re: The RBW Website has a new look...

[Joe Bernard]

Same same. If this was supposed to work better on phones..not so much. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: The RBW Website has a new look...

[Ed Fausto]

Same here, I also miss the larger images and I always use that feature.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 8:58 AM, A CT Cyclist  wrote:

> Another loss is the size of the images. They can no longer be enlarged
> just zoomed in on. Personally I miss the larger images.
>
>
> On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 2:45:42 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> It looks like Riv has switched their website again.  It looks the same
>> but different.  The big loss is staff bikes, but I expect that will be back
>> eventually.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Hetres

[Ben Miller]

As I said, it's an intensely personal choice. 

Thanks, yes, I have looked at them. I don't consider the treads to be any 
different, because I consider all slick treads to be the same. Bikes can 
not hydroplane under anything close to normal circumstances, so what 
possible difference could there be between those treads? Those differences 
in treads are cosmetic, nothing more. (Don't believe me? Read what Sheldon 
Brown  has to say about tread.) 
Even if somehow you still think that there is a difference between radial 
and herringbone tread, along the center, where the tyre actually contacts, 
both Grand Bois and Compass have radial tread (SOMA's have a mix of radial 
and a "true" slick pattern).

And true, no one other than Panaracer really knows what, if any, difference 
exists in those three tyres. But, if you're Panaracer and some asks for a 
tyre of a given size, weight, performance, and price point, how many 
different knobs do you think you have left to turn? It's not like Panaracer 
in Japan has an infinite number of casing material and rubber compounds to 
chose from, so those criteria almost certainly lock you into a rubber & 
casing design and everything else is cosmetic. Do you really think there is 
more to this decision making process? If so, what? 

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 1:17:25 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 11/25/2017 02:57 PM, Ben Miller wrote:
>
>
>
> Then be surprised.  The fact that Panaracer makes them doesn't mean 
> they're made the same.  And honestly, detecting the difference between the 
> Hetre and any other tire doesn't require a lot of detective work: all you 
> need do is look at them.  Here they are side by side.  It's obvious that's 
> not the same tread.  
>
> [image: Image result for compass babyshoe pass][image: Image result for 
> grand bois hetre]
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hetres

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/25/2017 02:57 PM, Ben Miller wrote:
I guess if you want to jump through all those hoops to get tyres that 
say "Grand Bois" on them, by all means (literally).


But Compass' Babyshoe and SOMA's Grand Randonneur EX tyres are both 
made by Panaracer (in Japan), with nearly the same specifications as 
the Hetres. In fact, the Hetre EL, the original Compass Babyshoe, and 
the SOMA GR EX all weigh the same (within grams of each other), I'd be 
surprised if these aren't all the exact same tyre.


Then be surprised.  The fact that Panaracer makes them doesn't mean 
they're made the same.  And honestly, detecting the difference between 
the Hetre and any other tire doesn't require a lot of detective work: 
all you need do is look at them.  Here they are side by side.  It's 
obvious that's not the same tread.


Image result for compass babyshoe passImage result for grand bois hetre




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Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: FS 51 Joe Appaloosa silver

[Andrew Huston]

Ok guys. I have an opportunity to buy a friends bike at a great discount. It 
better suits my needs. This results in me being pretty open to offers (within 
reason). Shoot em’ my way. 

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[RBW] WTT or WTB or FS: my Nitto Dynamic 90 mm stem for your same or similar 120 mm stem

[Julian Westerhout]

I have a never used, like new but with a few minor shopwear marks 90 mm 
Nitto Dynamic quill stem for 26.0 bars. I am looking for the same or a 
similar stem in 120 mm. 

would consider sale if you need the stem and don't have one for me. 

Replay off list. 

Thanks, 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, Il 

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[RBW] Re: Hetres

[Ben Miller]

I guess if you want to jump through all those hoops to get tyres that say 
"Grand Bois" on them, by all means (literally).

But Compass' Babyshoe and SOMA's Grand Randonneur EX tyres are both made by 
Panaracer (in Japan), with nearly the same specifications as the Hetres. In 
fact, the Hetre EL, the original Compass Babyshoe, and the SOMA GR EX all 
weigh the same (within grams of each other), I'd be surprised if these 
aren't all the exact same tyre. Compass has since updated their Babyshoe to 
be a true 42mm, so it is a bit different, therefore the SOMA GR EX might be 
the closest thing to the original Hetre that one can buy easily in the USA.

I know that tyres as an intensely personal choice, so I'm not begrudging 
the original poster! More of a reference to anyone else who is thinking 
about Hetre alternatives.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar for bikepacking

[nash5510]

Hi Mike, is that really a 29 x 2.25 vittoria mezcal in your bmc cross frame?  
And does one fit I'm the rear as well?  

Thanks

On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 8:18:40 AM UTC-8, Mike Williams wrote:
> Maybe go: 1)framebag/ half- framebag/ 2) compact rear saddlebag 3) front 
> rack+basket + bag of choice to go in basket 4) a small handlbar bag above 
> rack/ basket combo 5) a couple bartender bags( ive been attaching my 
> bartender bags to the basket lately)   Just some ideas!   -Mike
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Nov 22, 2017, at 6:38 AM, Tim Gavin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Or you could change the brake hanger to a fork-crown mounted one.  That 
> should keep the cable and front bag from interfering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With a Hunq, I'd recommend a small front rack like the Nitto M12, which is 
> cheap (for Nitto) and mounts to the canti posts.  VO's Then you could use the 
> front bag of your choice.  The Surly Porteur House is a widely available (and 
> cheaper) option, or there are plenty of options from wonderful small shops 
> like Ruthworks, Swift, Treetop, Ironweed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I like the Revelate Sweet Roll (and Salty Roll; I have one of 
> each).  They are versatile to mount (drops, flats, or Jones bars) and 
> surprisingly capable; I carried a >10lb load (tent, mattress, sleeping bag, 
> junk) in mine once and the handling was not bad.  I especially like the 
> accessory pocket to add on the front.
> 
> 
> But, I like these Revelate solutions for bikes that lack front mounts, like:
> my gravel bike (plastic Foundry Auger, which at least has fender mounts) or 
> my fat bike (Cannondale Fat CAAD, which has an aluminum fork but lacks 
> eyelets).
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 8:05 AM, Shoji Takahashi  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ed,
> If you'd really like to use the Sweet Roll (or similar), V-brakes would be 
> fine. (V-brakes would require appropriate brake lever.)
> 
> 
> Good luck on the trip!
> shoji
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 12:48:19 AM UTC-5, ed wrote:
> Last year I bought Philips' 48 Hunqapillar frame and I just recently 
> installed a Cliffhanger wheelset with dyno front hub and WI MI5 rear.
> I am planning to use the Hunqapillar for the GDMBR next year.
> To get better clearance from the ground, I planned on using bikepacking bags 
> but handlebar bags such as Revelate Sweet roll is not compatible with 
> cantilever brakes because it will interfere with the front brake cables.
> 
> 
> I would like to get suggestions from the group on what bag systems to use to 
> achieve better clearance from the ground.
> 
> 
> PS  I rode the TransAm last year on my 51 Atlantis using Tubus Cosmo (rear) 
> and Tubus Nova low rider (front) with Carradice C front and rear panniers
> 
> 
> Ed Fausto
> Manila, Philippines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: The RBW Website has a new look...

[Trenker]

A Woolgathering of Baconchewers? 



>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar for bikepacking

[Bob Keal]

Andy from Pitt said, in agreement with DP:

Some things need to be heavy duty from the get go, just as you say. Saving
> a few ounces can have an exceptional cost.
>
I wholeheartedly agree that a few ounces of savings isn't really worth the
possibility of failure, and I simultaneously have experiences to suggest
that lightweight and quality are not always mutually exclusive when it
comes to gear. For example, my Porcelain Rocket Mr. Fusion seat pack holds
my tent and footprint (plus spare tube and a few other bits) without an
issue. The entire system weighs 450g versus over 900g for my Carradice
Super C saddlebag. I love both, and they both have their uses, to be sure,
but I'm much more likely to choose the PR seat pack for a trip given that
it has all the capacity I need. It's super sturdy and I barely notice it's
back there, even when fully loaded, so lightweight and rugged are found in
the same piece of gear. The downside, of course, is that it looks silly as
all get out!

Also, my good buddy Jay, former Riv employee, made me the frame bag
pictured in my above post. It has no zippers and is made from super tough
cordura. It's still light, holds a bunch of food, and I'd have to try very
hard to rip or destroy it in any way.

I don't want my comments to come across as contrarian, but I also find my
trips, which are generally more off-road than on, to be more fun when I'm
not overloaded and carrying stuff that's heavier than it needs to be. Some
things are just heavy, and that's that, like the spare 26x3" tube that I
lug around even though I'll likely never use it, but other stuff can safely
save a bit of weight without sacrificing functionality.

Bob K. in Baltimore
-- 
Bob
443 278 4265
http://www.smallsur.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hunqapillar for bikepacking

[Jon BALER]

*Hi Jon,  I will look into the Rawland demiporteur rack and surly petite 
porterhouse bag.  I checked out the photos of fully loaded bike and it 
really helps.  Are those your bikes?  Thanks a lot.*


Yes, both photos are my Salsa Marrakesh bike.  I got the Rawland rack 
earlier this year, and used it for two trips (plus some shakedown rides).  
The first trip I used it with a traditional rando handlebar bag, and it 
would also be a good size for a wald basket.  The 2nd trip was the first 
time with the surly petite bag, and it was a good fit with that bag too.  
The downside of the rawland rack is that the fore/aft and height positions 
are fixed by the center rigid mount.  For the rando bag, I used a long 
spacer to get the bag further away from my handlebar.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jon_baler/37643642766/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jon_baler/36148684974

with Rando bag
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jon_baler/24346694598/





On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 11:28:29 PM UTC-5, ed wrote:
>
> Hi Shojie,  I forgot that V brake option.  Its something I can check and 
> consider.  Thanks for the suggestion.
>
> Hi Tim,  I forgot that Tektro brake cable hanger at Riv’s site.  Its 
> definitely another option so I can retain my Shimano CX50 brakes in the 
> front.  I have bookmarked bag sellers you mentioned and I was not aware of 
> those brands. I appreciate too your recommendation on the Revelate 
> handlebar bags. Thanks for the suggestion.
>
> Hi Mike W., Thanks for suggesting different options.  It looks like 
> combining bikepacking bags and traditional panniers is a good one ☺
>
> Hi Brendan,  thanks for posting your picture ☺  It gives me a lot to 
> consider on how to setup my gear.  I am trying not to use a rear pannier 
> based on my 2016 TransAm trip where I had to push my bike a lot and it was 
> kinda awkward with my huge Carradice C rear panniers.  It will definitely 
> be even harder pushing the bike on dirt roads.
>
> Hi Jon,  I will look into the Rawland demiporteur rack and surly petite 
> porterhouse bag.  I checked out the photos of fully loaded bike and it 
> really helps.  Are those your bikes?  Thanks a lot.
>
> Hi Kellie,  its nice to see others are using front basket ☺  I also 
> quickly browsed on the blog and it’s a nice resource.  I read that she also 
> used the same Clikstand cooking gear I used on my 2016 TransAm.  Thanks!
>
> Hi Patrick!!! I agree with Richard that your writings and pictures are 
> inspiring.  I have been doing cut/paste everyone’s post to save for later 
> review.  I posted my Atlantis bike loaded with traditional panniers so you 
> guys could check what I have previously tried.  This will be my first time 
> to use some bikepacking bags to complement my existing gears.
>
> Hi Bob,  Thanks for posting your picture of your loaded bike.  It gives me 
> a lot of ideas on different setups to try on my 48 Hunqapillar.
>
> You guys are lucky to have easy access to such gears specially stuff 
> coming from Rivendell.  I got to chance to visit them last year and its a 
> really cool place. In my case since I am on the other side of the globe, I 
> have to order stuff unseen and have it shipped to my brother in law in 
> Illinois to be consolidated before it gets shipped via sea freight (1.5-2 
> months) to the Philippines. 
>
> Thank you all!!!
> It is really heartwarming for all of you to take the time to posts your 
> suggestions ☺
> Now its time to review and buy some of the gears/racks you have 
> recommended.  I will post pictures couple of months from now once I get the 
> gears.
>
> Warm regards,
> Ed Fausto
> Riv rider in Manila, Philippines
> 51 Atlantis, 50 Cheviot, 50 Betty Foy (wifey), 48 Hunqapillar.
> Still tempted to get an Appalossa for that N+1 and I hope my sweetheart 
> does not read this :-)
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 2:31 AM, Bob K.  
> wrote:
>
>> FWIW, I've done a few "bikepacking" trips, and for most of them I've used 
>> front panniers, a Porcelain Rocket seat bag (which one could easily replace 
>> with a traditional saddlebag), a frame bag, some sort of a basket or 
>> stuff-strapped-to-the-top of a rack setup, and a couple of stem/top tube 
>> bags.
>>
>> Personally, I find a frame bag to be an awesome piece of gear. I 
>> generally try to keep my food and extra water inside, and this keeps the 
>> weight centered on the bike. I also leave the frame bag on the bike for 
>> general use, as it allows me to easily pack extra layers and water. In 
>> other words, the bikepacking hype is strong and much of that stuff is 
>> dispensible, but the frame bag, and even the top tube/stem bags, are really 
>> handy and practical.
>>
>> All of that said, sounds like an awesome trip! Have fun planning it and 
>> even more fun on the ride!
>>
>> Bob K. in Baltimore
>>
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Re: [RBW] Canvas vest recs?

[Patrick Moore]

This raises a tangential question: what clothing and tactics do y'all favor
to deal with large changes in temperatures during a ride? In the high
desert, 30* between early morning low and late afternoon high is routinely
30* and often 40*, with winds often changing from still to brisk and back.

Me: removable bits. Vests, jacket with zip off sleeves; ss jersey of mid
weight (as opposed to lightweight) wool with wool arm warmers; 3 layers of
thin wool; high-neck wool dickey; cut down wool scarf (Royal Stuart). And,
otoh, that old Wooly warm, thick ragg jersey that Riv used to sell --
coarse knit so breathes well, but -- paradoxically -- keeps you warm even
in at least a moderate breeze, but the same wind that doesn't bother you
when it's cold cools you when it's considerably warmer, or perhaps it's
just the natural temperature accommodation of wool. But I often choose the
vest or zip-off-sleeve jacket instead because they are less bulky.

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[RBW] Re: Hetres

[RichS]

Or try Alex Cycles in Japan.

Best,
Richard

On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 7:06:28 PM UTC-5, KC wrote:
>
> Thank you for the feedback.  Compass shows discontinued and recommends 
> Baby Shoe Pass as replacements.  Since I've been happy with the Hetres I 
> put on my first week of ownership I thought I'd stick with a good known 
> solution.  I went to the Grand Bois site and put the tires in my cart twice 
> but both times got an error message. Maybe me.  I'll give it another try 
> later but may be buying Baby Shoe Pass.
>   
>
> On Friday, 24 November 2017 15:54:43 UTC-8, Ian A wrote:
>>
>> You could always replace with Baby Shoe Pass from Compass Cycles (Bicycle 
>> Quarterly) I thought Compass also stocked Hetres?
>>
>> IanA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Canvas vest recs?

[Patrick Moore]

That may be inaccurate. They have been synthetics of one sort or another;
the lightest ones of lightweight nylon, the heavier ones of stretchy and
supposedly breathable synthetics.

...My other cycling vests have been of different weights and designs of
> nylon.
>

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[RBW] Re: 8 speeds going away @ Rivendell?

[RichS]

Chris, agree with your assessment. A small company like Rivendell can't 
afford to house a big inventory of parts. Love my 8 speed gearing though.
It's on all my Rivs and works perfectly for the terrain I ride. 

Regards,
Richard

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 2:00:08 AM UTC-5, Christopher Murray 
wrote:
>
> I would guess that 8 speed is just old now and very few people are looking 
> for new 8 speed parts. How many different parts can you stock? With 
> 5,6,7,8,9,10,11 speed drivetrains what do you stock and what don’t you 
> stock? Over the years it seems like 9 speed became the new “normal” for Riv 
> and they have stocked other parts more sparingly. 
>
> Cheers! 
> Chris 

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Re: [RBW] Canvas vest recs?

[Patrick Moore]

I favor vests for moderate cold, and have owned and used over a dozen over
the years for cycling and for street wear, including several wool ones
(currently Filson and another lighter one), insulated (Cahart), and many
cycling specific vests including a nice Ibex made from a wool/stretchy
synthetic fabric. My other cycling vests have been of different weights and
designs of nylon. My experience is that with no arms, and a zippered high
rise neck, a well designed nylon vest vents well enough to avoid the
soaking that comes from sweating. I have a very light one with mesh back
for temps above 40*F, a heavier one of some stretchy synthetic fabric for
temps down to freezing; below that I can choose a jacket of similar
material with zip off sleeves, very useful when you start out at 25*F (it's
good for me over a single mid weight wool layer) and your return journey is
55*F. Come to think of it, I think these cycling vests are made from what
is claimed to be breathable fabric but I've tossed the tags and
accompanying brochures, and don't depend on the fabric for comfort.

For a jacket without removable sleeves, I'd certainly want a more
breathable fabric -- I gave up using windbreakers over wool 10+ years ago
because I always sweated even in very cold weather. But IME, the absence of
sleeves makes the sweat retention far, far less of a problem. But if if
someone put a gun to my head and demanded that I buy a breathable vest, I'd
look for another similear to the Ibex I sold (sold because it was a wee bit
short -- long torso -- and wasn't any more effective than the
nylon/synthetic ones I've used).

On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 12:43 PM, EasyRider  wrote:

> I'm in the market for a new vest for commuting (and 1-2 hour rides). My
> last vest was a synthetic kinda breathable number with a liner that has
> started to disintegrate, leaving bits of plastic on my inner layers. For
> that reason I'd to replace it with something like waxed cotton.
>
> I've read Patrick's praise for hilltrek ventile but it's not in the budget
> for now. What I'm looking for is a waxed cotton vest, but more like a shell
> - no liner. I tend to wear a baselayer, a light sweater or synthetic
> pullover, and a vest for blocking wind, while remaining breathable during
> exertion. I'd like one with a collar. Anyone have a recommendation?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Happy Thanksgiving from Wisconsin!

[R Shannon]

'nother beautifully turned out Hunq in a pretty setting!

Regards,
Richard

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 6:27 AM, 'Jennings' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Yes, nothing like a Hunqapillar in the wild. This was me on a 20 mile ride
> thanksgiving day. Didn't see any turkeys but if you zoom in behind my bike
> you can see a few of about 50 buzzards perched in the trees.
>
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[RBW] Re: Canvas vest recs?

[Garth]

That's what I thought, and I have never found one either or I'd own one. They 
all seem to be the same low cut colllar design that seems more fashion than 
function or my idea of purpose is far from theirs. 

Myself I wear 2 different nylon vests for riding and walking. Both have a 
partial mesh back for ventilation. Theý are by far my most versatile and oft 
worn garments all 4 seasons. Neither one is made anymore, but I searched real 
quick and Boure in Colorado makes their own still. Made of Supplex nylon, which 
is highly durable and not disintegrate. I don't know what kind of vest you had 
but any decent nylon fabric does not just disintegrate. They also have a vest 
lined with fleece if you need that but I find uninsulated ones by far more 
useful as you can layer under or over as you like. 

http://www.boure.com/jacketsvests.html
To get accurate sizing I'd call or email them for the actual garment dimensions 
as size charts only refer to generalties of who they are intended to fit but 
speak none to the actual garment itself. 

I'm pretty sure Peal Izumi still makes wind vests too. 

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[RBW] FS: Sackville Olive Back-a-bike panniers $200

[John G.]

Selling my never-used Sackville olive panniers. Changing my touring setup, 
and in need of different bags. 

$200 shipped CONUS. I would also consider a trade for a Large, mostly 
unused Sackville Saddlesack.

PM for photos.

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[RBW] Re: Canvas vest recs?

[Will]

> wiggy's wind shirt.

On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 1:44:00 PM UTC-6, EasyRider wrote:
>
> I'm in the market for a new vest for commuting (and 1-2 hour rides). My 
> last vest was a synthetic kinda breathable number with a liner that has 
> started to disintegrate, leaving bits of plastic on my inner layers. For 
> that reason I'd to replace it with something like waxed cotton. 
>
> I've read Patrick's praise for hilltrek ventile but it's not in the budget 
> for now. What I'm looking for is a waxed cotton vest, but more like a shell 
> - no liner. I tend to wear a baselayer, a light sweater or synthetic 
> pullover, and a vest for blocking wind, while remaining breathable during 
> exertion. I'd like one with a collar. Anyone have a recommendation?
>

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[RBW] Calling Ron Mc for handlebar comparison photo

[alan lavine]

Hi All,
Looking to replace drop bars with something upright, such as jitensha, MAP, 
postino, vo porter, etc.

Awhile back there was a composite photo of several such bars posted, I 
think, by Ron Mc.  Can anyone find it and re-post?

Thanks,
Alan
NYC

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[RBW] Re: 8 speeds going away @ Rivendell?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

8-speed is not old now, it's been old for some time. But Rivendell has 
supported this number of cogs, and I believe still very much does; my first 
gen Clementine came with 8 speeds. I think it is more a matter of a 
somewhat puzzling choice regarding the new website design. Whereas out of 
stock items that have only one choice/variation, there is a somewhat 
discreet "sold out", when you have multiple choice these x'd out boxes are 
used. The other thing is that when you choose one of these and add it to 
your cart, there is no way to know without actually clicking over to the 
cart that it put that item in--no confirmation or acknowledgement. Not 
saying it would make a mistake, but that the expected norm on most shopping 
sites gives the user this instant feedback. I think this aspect of the new 
site could be refined to give users more clarity and confidence. For 
instance, just a line Availability: In stock, like Harris. Or a pull-down 
that shows which variations are currently available and which are out, like 
VO uses. Some sites make the out of stock selection appear in light gray 
and unclickable, not my favorite but still more helpful than a big box with 
an x in it. In my opinion.

On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 11:00:08 PM UTC-8, Christopher Murray wrote:
>
> I would guess that 8 speed is just old now and very few people are looking 
> for new 8 speed parts. How many different parts can you stock? With 
> 5,6,7,8,9,10,11 speed drivetrains what do you stock and what don’t you 
> stock? Over the years it seems like 9 speed became the new “normal” for Riv 
> and they have stocked other parts more sparingly. 
>
> Cheers! 
> Chris 

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[RBW] Re: WTB (iBob cross post) 30 x 46 square taper (170 approx) crank, silver

[jeffrey kane]

Hey Dan, the rims are the old Velocity Twin Hollow that Riv used to see as 
their "budget" wheel set. There's lots of width with the Bleriot though 
(front & back), in fact, the crimped chain stay work is really nice for 
tires of this size on this frame. The WTB's with tubes are coming in around 
46 or 47mm -- same as Switchback Hills for me on other rims of similar 
width. I have a new and unmounted pair of Terrine Elwoods to try soon ... 
they look like a terrific mixed use tire as well.

On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 8:51:13 PM UTC-5, Danno wrote:
>
> That is great that those tires fit.  I am interested in them myself.  What 
> rims are you using?
>
> Dan
>

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[RBW] Re: 8 speeds going away @ Rivendell?

[Belopsky]

Ultimately if you need 8 speed buy it elsewhere

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[RBW] Re: Hetres

[Garth]

Try the Blue Lug store instead, it's much easier to use as it's in English at 
least. I Put in 4 Hetres to ship to Ohio and the total was 221.77 including the 
65something cost for shipping. Shipping from Japan is quite expensive , so I 
would buy as many tires in one shot as you feel comfortable with. Just check to 
see how much the ship fee goes up for more tires as it will increase greatly at 
some point where it ends up being the same cost per tire buying fewer, say 4 
tires instead of 6 or 8. 

To get the estimate for shipping cost I started checkout as a guest and entered 
an alias name, email, phone and address EXCEPT for an accurate zipcode and 
state, which is all that is needed to get an accurate estimate for shipping. I 
do this all the time with websites that do not show shipping fees upfront 
without a checkout process, I give out as little personal information as 
necessary on any such website. 

I did an estimate like this with the GB website a few months ago and the 
shipping fees were the about the same. 

https://global.bluelug.com/grand-bois-hetre-650b-tire-brown.html

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar for bikepacking

[ascpgh]

A hearty agree for this passage: " Ultralight gear is wimpy. It will fail, 
and in circumstances less than ideal that pushed it beyond it’s frail 
capacity. It must be babied to last. I carry expedition weight gear for 
what gear I carry. It allows me to be confident and comfortable no matter 
what"

Won't forget the experience on a long backpacking trip in NM during which 
my pack bag and shoulder straps began to come apart under the load (despite 
many miles over numerous outings in preparation). While not particularly 
ultralight, materials were not up to the test which my earlier outings did 
not present. The hacks necessary to keep it together and minimally 
functional really took away from the focus of the trip. 

Some things need to be heavy duty from the get go, just as you say. Saving 
a few ounces can have an exceptional cost.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 7:52:29 AM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Awesome trip you have planned! Fantastic! 
>
> I prefer panniers and have ridden sections the high altitude sections of 
> the GDMBR (which is 99% back roads), as well as large sections of the 
> Colorado Trail and the Colorado portion of the Divide Trail (mostly single 
> track) and ground clearence is a non-issue created by the marketers of 
> frame bags. Think about it: if your panniers don’t go lower than your 
> pedals and don’t stick out farther than your legs, you’re golden. I crash 
> through gnarly willow and bracken overgrown on trails often. I love my 
> hearty Sackville Toursacks (Back of Bike Bags now). They don’t care what 
> they rub into. Frame bags are great if that’s what you want. They DO keep 
> weight central to the frame, but that is close to a non-issue compared with 
> how panniers carry, when properly mounted and loaded. For reference I haul 
> up to 80 pounds of groceries at a go and bikepack with 50 pounds incl. food 
> and water. 
>
> Framebags do force the use of ultralight gear because they do not carry 
> much. You will get all four seasons, sometimes within an hour, on the 
> trail. Ultralight gear is wimpy. It will fail, and in circumstances less 
> than ideal that pushed it beyond it’s frail capacity. It must be babied to 
> last. I carry expedition weight gear for what gear I carry. It allows me to 
> be confident and comfortable no matter what. Here’s the basic setup I’ve 
> settled on: 
>
> Hunqapillar with rear panniers, a saddlebag that leaves room for my tent, 
> sleeping bag, and pad on top of the rack. Works brilliantly. 
>
> Gear: 
> Hilleberg Akto Tent 
> Wiggy’s sleeping bag (either his summer bag with a vapor barrior liner if 
> needed, or the heavier zero degree) 
> Mesh long johns (these allow the use of any insulative layer and are 
> amazingly brilliant) 
> Insulative layer (boiled wool knee socks, flannel shirt, down jacket, 
> boiled wool mittens and hat) 
> Wind/rain layer: ventile 
> Stove/fuel 
>
> The gear I have is all heavier than an ultralight setup. But it handles 
> wind rain (horizontal or otherwise), hail, snow, and because I wear minimal 
> clothing and bring no extras total weight is quite low. 
>
> Things to learn before you come (if you don’t know already): 
>
> — food care in bear country 
> — layering of clothes, what makes it effective and how to manage it 
> wisely. 
> — wise firebuilding and management (if you are using a firebox) and 
> clearing a safe place for your stove. 
>
> You can see my set up here: 
> https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/s24o-on-the-skirts-of-pikes-peak 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick

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